Category: Dating and Relationships
Lets get this out of the way first . I am sighted and I have been asked many times by blind/visual impaired friends if I would date a woman who was blind. the answer is always the same and is always a yes. providing a few stipulations, but that isn't what this thread is about.
my question is do any blind people hold any resentment towards people like me? If there is resentment, why?
just trying to get an idea of what the general vibe about this is.
discuss
There are several topics here on the bords that you might find interesting. The "What attracts blind guys," and "what attracts sighted guys," to name a couple. Personally, I have no resentment for it. I think it's cool. all the people I've dated have been blind, except for one.
i've both dating sighted and blind experience. however, most of my dating experience are with someone sighted. i found that, as a blind person, i'm more confortable dating a sighted than a blind. yes, we do have lots of things in common in the blind world, but however, we are excluding ourselves even more for the so call "normal" world.
when i think of it, with the blind person that i dated in my real life, i mean, as in person, in some time, i'm more like his mother, nurturing him than we both have the equality in our relationship. yes, it can be countless of issues, from being immature and so on, but i think the relationship become somewhat unhealthy.
on another hand, if dating a sighted can reach the level of equality, belancing up with everything we do, then, i dont see any problem with it. as long as none of the partner taking advantage of another in the relationship, it will work well.
regardless dating a sighty or a blindy, it is essential to ask ourselves what draw us to the relationship, and what not. if what we care is caractoristics and personalities of a person, regardless she or he with or without disability, you still love that person of who they are.
I am dating a visually impaired woman (and her guide dog :) I have no significant visual impairment. Here is a couple of thoughts.....
1. I am attracted to her personality, the eyes were not an issue.
2. She is significantly younger than me - this is a source of more challenge than being Visually impaired.
3. Of the Blind people I know all of them are very capable people, but the issue that holds them back from getting the most out of life is not entirely of their own making. It stems from the walls of protection thrown up by loving parents and well-meaning people in their lives.
So on the whole what I am saying is that blind people have to struggle harder to establish themselves as individual adults, ironically because of the love from their families that encourages the families to protect the blind person from the riggers of the real world.
So please read this carefully I am not saying that blind people are in anyway deficient but they have a much harder battle to fight for their own emancipation and freedom as adults.
I have seen this similarly play out in a former GF of mine who suffered from cerebral palsy. she had all the innate power she needed but could not get free from her families well meaning wrapping of cotton wool.
boy, you hit that one right on the head. If someone saw that I was blind, and wanted to date me for that simple fact alone, I wouldn't like the idea. If someone was attracted to my personality and we hit it off and they happened to be sighted, then it's all good.
There would be a few things that both the blind and sighted would have to get used to, but mainly what I've thought of is that as a sighted person, would you miss that added nonverbal communication? Your blind partner isn't going to be able to read your body language from across the room, and won't be able to make eye contact with you. It might not seem important, but I think that if you're sighted and used to this sort of contact, there will be times when you'll miss it, especially when you're trying to say something that you are too shy or afraid to put in to actual spoken words. Just something to ponder.
I might have said this somewhere else but here it is. I don't think people who are visually impaired have a problem with people without a visual impairment who want to date them. The problem may be with that persons treatment of them, the misconseptions and stereotypes about visually impaired individuals that could be a turn off. In that case if they have patience, understanding, open communication and a willingness to learn, both could relax into a beautiful relationship.
DA, You make a good point about the non visual communication, but I must say I had forgotten about that, I suppose for me (who is someone who loves words), it is a minor inconvenience. A more difficult problem I have is the dis-connect between our two cultures, my partner is Malaysian (Chinese), and I am a white Aussie. My partner has excellent engrish but the cultural differences means that we miss the subtlety in our communications.
Chippie,
I agree and think that those sentiments also equally apply to all relationships. The qualities you mention of patience, understanding, open communication and a willingness to learn are foundational and having a basis in these makes for an awesome relationship.
Smiles
Your friendly neighbourhood Pirate.
having came from an unloving family myself, along with having an additional disability besides blindness, I'd just like to say those things only hinder you if you let them.
I realize not everyone is strong, but if you're determined to make a better life for yourself, you will.
back to the topic of dating people who're sighted, though, I definitely don't object to it. I've yet to have my chance doing so, but that isn't by choice.
I love this topic!! currently I am in a relationship where my partner can see fore the most part. My wife does have some issues that stop her from driving but outside of that she can see fine. What I am finding heard is some of blinddies or I guess I could bee a sighted thing as well not sure so correct me please but a lot of what we like to do is with a computer device. I find this drives my partner up the wall! lol. Honestly TV does not really intrest me and it more so her hobby then mine. I could make do with web a soets and lose our satalite tv. Again this is just me or its this really like a lot of blindies. Does this happen in the sight l as well.world
It's a wonderful topic and y'all gona hate me for my opinion about this but this is what I feel.
India is with a different culture. most the sighted people will look at the blind in two ways, in my opinion. one is as a begger and the other one is similar to a god.
As per me, both are not true. I want to be treated as a normal human being. As I'm an average man, I feel by this way.
For an example, if a sighted person smokes in a publick place, they will just ignore it and will go off. rather if a blind doing the same thing, they will just say, "see? that's why he's being a blind".
As per marrying a blind person, if the blind person is rich, girls will come forward. but rich girls will never.
On the other hand, most the sighted males are not coming forward to date or marrying a blind girl.
Or in another words, a blind person can get a sighted partner, if that blind is rich or if he is well settled in his life with an employment. But I've never seen a rich sighted girl or a boy dated or married a blind person so far in India.
Another pathetic thing is, most the blind and sighted couples are not happier in their life. that's because, that sighted person is not accepting that blind with true love. either he or she is accepting that blind for his money or for his or her properties.
These are all the above reasons I've decided not to date a girl from India.
I have no any bad opinion against sighted people. if I get to meet a sighted girl with true love and affection, I may probably get back my decision as I'll go only with a blind girl.
Raaj.
I will say on a personal level, probably the most difficult factor once we got engaged, was the discrimination she was subjected to. We as blind people are generally used to the fools making problems for us. However, it's a totally new area when some are proceeding to make things difficult for the sighted partner. I will admit, this was difficult, if not unknown to other populations (black on white, Asian Hispanic, etc.)
I think it's up to us to help the sighted partner manage what for them is now a totally new and problematic area. This can affect friendships, even family for some. I'm not being condescending here, but I felt, and still feel, the sighted person in this situation is particularly vulnerable due to not having the life experience to prepare them for their friend devaluing their relationship, devaluing their partner, perhaps even devaluing them.
I'm gonna be sexist, oink oink here it comes so shoot me: Women in particular can be very spiteful in this area with no fear of retribution. I mean, they say to each other things men would not say to one another, without things quickly devolving into a fist fight.
And what gets preyed upon is a female's insecurities. To that end, I believe it would be more difficult to be a female sighted partner. Men can blow each other off if one were to start making remarks. Men are less likely to come home insecure and wondering if they did something wrong, needing to rehash the whole story, wondering if they should go apologize to the offender. I was still a young fool then, though, and believed the current diatribes about women being sensitive and supportive of each other. Not anymore: my views on that score resemble those of H. L. Mencken: and to that effect I'd say if you're a blind male partner in a heterosexual relationship, be ready to help where you can when your partner gets spitefully mistreated by those of her kind because she's seen with a blind person.
Also, I'm not convinced it's necessary, or even beneficial, that the partner being blind has to be part of the discussion, when the sighted partner is talking to someone and family discussion comes up. It's really up to the person in question, but I know there's pressure from some quarters that it has to either be announced or deliberately hidden. My wife has known people with whom it never came up that I was blind, until a situation called for it, and by then the person in question is then well exposed to much more of the relationship than the fact one member is blind, or black, or whatever.
It does get easier with time: I don't think lately my wife has been exposed to some of the immature behavior she experienced early on in our relationship. Stares probably still happen by strangers, and I think she's mentioned occasionally somebody will get awkward and weird once they know I'm blind but nobody who was close to her.
I don't have a circle or group of blind people I come in contact with, so don't know how she would be received or not received in terms of the resentment business. However, from times we have been with other blind people nobody seens to care one way or the other.
Resenting someone because they have eyesight, and then resenting discrimination against yourself for being blind, to me, is just d u m DUMB!
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the matter, provided that the sighted individual is capable of accepting the other person for who they are, even with their visual impairment, and vice vursa in some cases. But on the other hand, as someone with hardly any sight, I would prefer to date someone who is sighted, because like someone else said, a blind person dating another blind person seems to exclude us as visually impaired people from the rest of the world, but mind you, I've dated almost an equal number of sighted and blind people, so that personal preference doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't and won't ever date another blind person again.
For me it's about individuality. Ultimately we are all individuals in our own right and I personally am not keen to be seen as representative of a demographic.
I think that in countries that are less developed and more culturally oriented it is not as straightforward, as there is increased pressure to adhere to certain cultural norms, and deviating from those norms might see one outcast by one's friends and family, and only the strongest can get past that. However in a country such as the UK/US we have moved beyond intolerance and into a culture of more equality where everyone should be seen as equals in their own right.
I personally think it shouldn't be seen as any different from dating outside one's race or culture.
All that being said, I do also think there are some glaring double standards, where blind people would rather date sighted people, yet seem to have issue with sighted people not wanting to date blind people. Ultimately if you wouldn't date your own, why should you expect someone else to?
I was raised around mostly blind people. When I was barely 5 years old, I started school at the Tennessee School for the Blind, and went home for a weekend once or twice a month. there was also christmas and spring breaks and summers, but even then, I felt more like an alien at home. My brothers didn't understand me, and I didn't understand them, so basically, my real friends were at the school. Being raised only around other blind people from such a young age did have it's tole. I'm much more comfortable around other blind people. I get really self conscious around sighted people. They can see everything I'm doing, but not only can I not see them, but I can't hear where they are or what they're doing with any real degree of accuracy.
Anyway, my whole point is that I'm much more comfortable around other blind people, so for me to date a sighted person, both of us would have to make quite a few adjustments. If we truly loved each other though, I see no reason why we couldn't at least give it our best effort and try to make it work.
This is an interesting topic!
I've only dated men with visual impairments or they have been totally blind until recently. My boyfriend is completely sited, and it took me a bit to get used to this fact. I found that I was more subcoshious than I had been with the men that were blind. When I told my boyfriend that he is the first sited guy I've ever dated, he seemed surprised.
I had been on a couple dates with sited men but nothing ever stuck like my boyfriend. It's interesting dating someone that is sited, he sees everything I do..from little things like eating, folding laundry, doing dishes etc..to things like walking around the area where I live.
So far, he's had a really good attitude about things, and so has his mom..(as far as I know..) but man, I was nervous to eat in front of her lol..
I don't know if my bf has ever gotten any backlash or questions about dating me..but now that I think of it I'll ask him. :)
I've dated both blind and sighted girls and there have been positive and negative things about each. I am fine with either though. The personality of the person in question as well as how attractive I find them is more important than whether or not they can see. Here are a few observations of mine...
With somebody who is blind, or perhaps VI, you don't have to always explain everyday stuff because they are aware of it. (like using a color detector, screen reader, OCR, braille, cane, guide dog, etc.) You can move onto more interesting conversation instead of having to outline your day to day life and how you accomplish various things. Those questions and/or comments from sighted people can get old sometimes. Like How do you do this... or, it's amazing you can do that, yada yada yada. What I like about being with a sighted girl is that you can be more spontanious, especially if they can drive. I really dig that. Also, it's good to be able to ask what something says, and be able to get an immediate answer. What I have found though is that it's the friends and family of the sighted girl that cause problems, mostly due to not having the facts and believing narrow minded outdated stereotypes about people with visual impairments. I have a somewhat short fuse for that, especially when they don't really know me. Dating someone who is blind or VI though, you can get the same sort of bakclash. Like the whole "how will you two deal with this or that when you're both blind?" and all that rubbish. I find it quite insulting that even after I inform someone that I am a college graduate and have held various jobs etc, they assume, for some strange reason, that I can't deal with every day tasks. Well, instead of assuming things, they should actually talk with me about it so they can know the facts. Finally, just as an interesting observation, in my experience, the blind girls I've been with were generally more satisfying in the bedroom than sighted girls. That may be another interesting discussion, if it hasn't been started on another topic already...
I can definintely understand the treatment thing. My most recent x was sighted and, for all her going on and on about having no problem dating a blind man she had a number of habits that said otherwise, and said it quite strongly at that. Perhaps the most important issue was that she couldn't seem to understand why I should want to better my life by finding a job. In fact she seemed to resent me for it. She also had a rather bad habit of never letting me do things around the house. Oh taking out the garbage but if I tried something else and didn't get it done absolutely perfectly according to her she would chew my head off. And if I tried to do it again the reaction was the same. Even more disturbing was her thinking it was funny to move things just as I was about to reach for them. It could be a drink, my cell phone and even an entire plate of food once. And she couldn't understand why I didn't and don't find things like that funny. And when I told her that she got all hurt and offended as though I'd insulted her. It would be different if she'd stopped doing it after learning my views but she didn't. Oh a few weeks or so would go by but sooner or later, usually once I'd let my guard dow, it would happen again. And her excuse? I forgot you hated that. Well I'm sorry, but you can only use that excuse a few times before it becomes riddiculous. Well anyway the upshot of this is that I have no problem with dating a sighted woman so long as she's got the right attitude towards blindness as well as a personality that I can click with.
I think it’s wonderful you have set aside the sight issue and are willing to date a blind person. I do know some blind people that have an issue with sighted people, and that is due to bad experience, so yes you are right. That is the only reason I can think of for it. All the points posted here are extremely valid, it’s sad to say. I personally will, and have dated both blind and sighted. I do enjoy the convenience of being able to drive someplace, and more activities are cheaper and easier to do, however, all sighted women I have dated can’t drive, so we still had to work out the issue of traveling. My experience with blind girls is as posted, and then seem to need more help doing things, and some are simple, but it has been a learning experience for me to be able to teach them. I honestly enjoy it. I think if you’re going to be that close to a person you should be willing to do what is required to help them live easier and have a good time with you. I have dated some independent blind girls, but I find the more independent they are the more they aren’t willing to date a blind guy, so it’s catch 22. I’ve even been told, I don’t date blind guys. Sad, yes, because they are blind as well, and if anyone should understand the difficultly of dating in general as a blind person they should. Turning me down because you don’t like my personality is fine, but not because I’m just like you. This goes both ways, guys do it too, so I’m not only on blind women. I personally would like to date more blind women, because it seems less work as posted. Many things don’t require explaining, plus I’d hope they’d understand some of the things we must go through as blind people, so that makes better understand maybe? People make too much of relationship structure. What I mean is, if you are different races, age, tall, short, Christian, or not, and just many things. When you strip it down to basics it come down to “do we click, and if so can we become a unit. Great topic.
There's a theory of learning called transformative learning. The idea is that when someone confronts "disorienting dilemmas" that challenge their assumptions and expectations, they examine those things critically, eventually reforming their beliefs and coming to a different understanding of the self. In other words, you experience something that shakes your view, and it changes you. I have discovered that when it comes to widely held stereotypes regarding the “sighted partner” as Leo so eloquently put it, the principles of transformative learning don’t appear to apply. People make assumptions - assume you are a saint. Or a fool. Despite the rebellious, resilient human spirit; despite intellectual status; despite elaborate coping mechanisms and soul-deep joie de vivre, there are impacts. Relentless impacts to easy, little, everyday exchanges. We draw stares, which I try to ignore, and smile through gritted teeth. Humour does ease the pain, but much like grief, it’s not something one “gets over.” You don’t get over it, you live with it. You learn to maneuver around stupidity and misconception, develop a thicker skin, laugh at yourself, lose some of your vanity, abandon foolish self-consciousness, get on with it and enjoy the moment!
C.
I like that! I really do. Smile.
I wanted to add to my post, that dating a sighted girl doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have to help her as well. Being sighted doesn't come with a garrentee that she can do everything, and will understand everything. Example, her car have a flat, and yes changing it is a simple operation, but if she's never had to she'll not know how, so a guy like me changes the flat and we continue on our way. So you see it had nothing to do with she was sighted, and I was blind, it had to do with what we did or did not know, and what are experience in life was. So again dating is simply stripped down to caring for someone.
Yeah, I've heard that line from some blind girls before... "I don't date blind guys, ever." Talk about generalizing. We've all had bad experiences from time to time with many peple in different catagories, but, to exclude a whole set of people like that, it's selfish and shallow. For some girls, I guess it's really important, the fact that a sighted guy may have a sweet car, or, he plays on the college football team, shit like that. That stuff is not really important though, it's all superficial bs. The funny thing is if that was turned around on them, I bet they would be really offended. Lastly, I will say this. The first one on one interaction that people seem to have with a blind person tends to give a pretty poor impression. I for one am tired of trying to go into damage control mode because the first blind person someone happened to meet or see had poor social skills, bad table manners, or couldn't/wouldn't take care of basic shit and expected somebody else to do it, it's assumed that everybody who happens to be blind must be like that. Then you waste x amount of time trying to explain to them/show them that a certain percentage of us are smart, educated, independent, and normal.
I wouldnt want someone so shallow anyway, so best just to move right along and save us both some time.
All my serious relationships have been with blind women. Granted, I don't have a rich history of romance, as I'm in my second and hopefully last relationship and am engaged. And yeah, she's just as blind as I am although she used to have partial vision. My first serious relationship was also with a blind woman, and although it wasn't the happiest experience in my life, whatever the problems were had nothing to do with her blindness as such and were more about her being rather needy. Unfortunately I just did not have very good luck with the sighted romantically, just made some friends and even that was not always so easy, what with me being more the nerdy introverted sort, so social situations are not where I'm in my element. But just because I did not have the best experience or a lot of it does not mean I'd rain on somebody else's parade. Most important things in any sort of relationship, no matter who it is, are you two happy and do you love each other. That's about it. Doesn't matter if you're reinforcing a stereotype or what political message your relationship sends or whether a bunch of busybody strangers would give two hoots and a holler. Naw, all that stuff's irrelevant.
Can I had a thought here too, I wonder fore some of us who have a lot of tech gear, it that scare the crap out of a sight lady? i mean, they walk in and see your computer, about 2 harddrives and dVD burner with a netbook connected to all of it. This is what my wife endures on a day to day bases. Lets not fore get i have a laptop too. I wonder if this would drive some crazy with the stario type out there now how we can not use a computer if we do not very well. Just wondering!!
I ment how we can not see so how can we use a computer, sorry fore the typing I will work on my sentence structure later.
Brian, that's pretty childish and immature to say the very least. That's how my brothers treated me when I would come home for the summer, so it's no wonder that I was happier at the school for the blind. My brothers would put big glasses of water in the middle of the carpeted living room floor, right in my path, so when I would run in to it and knock it over, I would get in trouble. They wanted to take me fishing one day, and being stupid me, I went. They thought it was total hilarity to suddenly take off and leave me in the middle of the road, with no cane. I did manage to get home unaided, but it was the last time I ever went anywhere with them. Okay, so, they were kids, but to have an adult move stuff on you like that as well? That says quite a lot about her basic character, to me.
good topic,
I'm currently dating a blind guy right now which is how I learned of this site.
He was the very first person whom I have ever dated who is blind. At first, I was a little nevervous dating him. Some of the stuff I was wondering were, how much can he do on his own, how much of a role am I going to be expected to play in his life and so on. As it turned out, I had nothing to fear. Completely in contrary to what i was expecting, he turned out to be one of the most hard working, tallented, intelligent person whom I've ever met, so much so that I am positive he is smarter than I am.
When I ask him why does he devote so much atention towards school, he says, because I am blind, I'm going to have to have education to be able to get anywhere in life. although, there are a lot of sergvices for the blind, he does not use them. He has never been to any blind school, was actually at a private school.
In closing, dating him was most likely the best thing that has ever happened to me, and was a real eye opener to the struggles, and perseverance that blind individuals go through on a daily routine.
Resentment? no, not at all, lol.
My husband is sighted, and we met online, so my disability never really came into the conversation till we were closer friends.
Yeah Anthony, Maria was childish to say the least. And extremely controlling. She wouldn't even let me go laces n my own and made doubly sure I couldn't by withholding the punch cards we get here that give us discounts on the local transportation. That and making sure I never had much if any cash on hand to pay said fares. Her reasoning was you've got me now so no need for cabs. But her childish behavior almost made me ashamed to be around her.
Wow what an interesting topic.
Um, wow Brian. Childish indeed. I would never put up with that sort of behavior from any boyfriends I have...but unfortunately,a select few of my female friends are exactly the way you say Mareah was; and not that there really would be, but if I had one reason why I absolutely refuse to date sighted people, it would be because of situations like that.
Well I generally have a reasonably good judge of character, but of course there are those times when people will be extra careful not to show their true colors at first. Generally I can tell whether a sighted person is good girlfriend or even just friend material by the way they talk to me. For instance my alarm bells tend to go off at the first indication of the "what can you do?" mentality that's sometimes displayed when I tell people I'm looking for a job.
I can see how that could set off the alarm bells, especially when dealing with someone sighted, but I've met or talked with blind people from most walks of life. some are extremely independant, some are extremely sheltered and then there are those that are right in the middle. Sometimes, when I'm getting to know a person, I'll ask them what they can do. It's usually aimed at a specific subject though. For example, if the topic of cooking comes up, I'll be curious to know the skill and experience level of my new friend. If I end up knowing how to do something that they don't know about, I'm happy to teach them, providing that they want to learn. If they can do stuff that is beyond my current skill level, chances are that I'm going to be interested in at least learning the basics. Once I decide that I'd really like to get to know a person, I can be a bit intense. I don't deal with superficiality all that well really, so I do tend to ask a lot of questions, but I also tell a lot about myself, so it's not a one-way street.
It's not so much the question as the tone in which it's asked. Most of the sighted folks who ask that question, at least the ones I've met, are the sort who honestly don't believe we can do anything with our lives or that we should even want to.
I can tell you from a sighted person that there aren't a lot of sighted people who are looking to take advantage or trick blind people from doing, or into doing anything.
Most of my friends if not all are very curious and want to learn more about blindness.
I'm a blind guy that can do many many things even sighted people have no clue how to do, so if someone ask me that question that could see, specially a female, and most males, I would point out a few things they couldn't I can. I personally am not interested in being tested, nor testing someone I wish to date. If she is lacking some place, but for whatever reason I was atracted to her, then all that bullshit is just that. We should be help mates to one another. I believe in 2 groups of people, the ones that want to be helpless, and these that simply don't know how, or can't. These that don't know, or can't deserve some caring for if you are saying "I like you and want to date you." Doing for someone should be a pleasure not a pain. Sighted or blind, we are dating, not testing right?
To poster 35, I'm not saying you think we were either, but I'm pretty sure none of us were implying that all sighted people are as childish as the person (s) mentioned in earlier posts.
And I almost forgot; Wayne, I'm the same way...if a sighted person wants to ask me what I can and can't do, they're very likely to find out what I can do, that they can't. I know that might make me come across as a bit conceded, but that's what they get; like you said, we're supposed to be dating, not testing each other's abilities, right?
I agree that it's not the question, but the context that really does it for me. I want to be thought of as an equal. Asking questions is perfectly normal, but asking them in such a way that makes it seem like you already have your answer is never a good thing.
wow this was a great topic. i've dated two sighted guys, and the first one was long distance but he was nice and kind and had a great personality. then there was my last one, he wasn't much of a communicator but was really patient with helping my first guide dog when she was attacked but he laughed at me when ia sked if i could touch him to see what he looked like, but it was nice just being able to go places with him and he was always coming up with new places for us and my former guide dog to go. I wouldn't be opposed to dating a blind guy if the opportunity should arrise but so far it hasn't. I grew up around and was raised around a lot of sighted people and i'm pretty independent to, but like others have said with parents and family sheltering us it does make it tough to show sighted people that we are just as capable as them. This was a great topic once again and i think if the personality and interests worked out and if they liked animals it wouldn't matter to me if the person had vision or any other disability for that matter.
I personally have dated sighted guy even though my 1st & 2nd bfs were VI...we'd still talk when he were broken up but i havent had any sort of resentment towards the sighted or VI ex bfs...
The part of this convresation I find disturbing is some people saying how we want to be equal: well yes, that is true. But then turning around and using a bad experience with sighted people to illustrate how immature, or shallow, or some other word, sighted people supposedly are.
I still contend that someone's vision, or lack thereof, has no bearing on their character. If any group should be understanding and not label and lump all others into one category, in my opinion that would be us: we should, since we all know what it's like when others do this.
Anthony, I'm like you: generally curious, and treat others as though they were curious. It just makes no sense to lump all sighted people into one group, if we ourselves don't want it done to us.
Very well said. We are people first blind or not
To clarify, when I said *equal*, I meant that both ways. I have had bad experiences with certain sighted people, but I've also had just as many bad experiences with blind people. It's not about whether or not the person has vision, but rather that the person is kind, open minded, and all the other traits that make a person who they are.
its called being a human lol
but surely this all comes back to my earlier point that people are individuals..
Replace "I had a really bad experience with a sighted guy" with "I had a really bad experience with a black/asian/<insert race of choice that isn't your own> guy" would we stand for that in terms of stereotyping? I think not.
Also, imagine a sighted person saying "well, I wouldn't date a blind guy/girl, I had a really bad experience with a blind guy..." how would you feel about that?
That's exactly my point. I don't let experiences dictate who I choose to be with. if that was the case, I wouldn't be with someone right now, and I never would be. What I'm saying is that the bad experiences I have had aren't because of vision.
I feel like its broken into many ways, but we cant jus point out the blind/VI problem...Im sure not all sighted people don't end a realtionship with a blind/VI person jus because of their vision. We also have to look at why it happened, but not fully blame the sighted. There is some sighted people out there that would mind dating a blind/VI person or maybe be curious about how we are with relationships. Not sure if this makes sense to you all, but my opinion (:
Exactly; like I said, I've dated almost an equal number of sighted and blind/VI people, and while there may be drawbacks to dating both, those relationships didn't end because of our abilities and disabilities, but because of other difficulties not concerning this particular issue.
Also we shouldn't come to a decision just looking at only one sighted person who he or she's breaking up due to we are a disable. it depends, though. I do have many many sighted friends and both are different in their own ways. few of them are even now enjoy teasing my disability and for which I usually get them back. and few others are very kind more than I expect. and another part is somewhat different from this two catagory. they are very much helpful and they wanted to help even in the place I don't want it. I'm slowly educating them. and at last, there is a few friends who always come to me for my offers alone. like beers, cigarettes, snacks and so on. also will lend money and will never give that back. they are cheat fuckers. and I almost try to ignore them.
So we cannot generalise by looking at one person's ...
Raaj.
I am simply very forceful when it comes to meeting new sighted people. discussion of my disability is off limits because I'm not there to satisfy their curiocity or anything like that. if people want to be my friend then that's fine, let's talk about what we have in common, politics, music, philosophy, disability topics are boring to me anyway.
My girlfriend was the first VI person I have ever had opportunity to know, we had communicated for some time on-line but meeting in real life presented a number of challenges I could not have anticipated - I had N.F.I. (No Freaking Idea) after all. I needed to ask questions and gain some understanding of how she perceived the world around her this helped me immeasurably to anticipate challenges and describe things without being repetitive or condescending.
I have colour perception issues and find that I perceive the world quite differently to those with more typical colour perception, I have enjoyed discussing the ways we each perceive our realities. And learning how she undertakes the mundane tasks like making tea has shown me a side of her I would never have known otherwise.
51st poster, I am curious as to why your so closed regarding your disability. Don't you think by educating the sighted masses, the blind or anyone with a disability is doing themselves a service. Afterall, if there is one thing I hear and continue to hear is that how arrogant sighted people are when it comes to stuff like accomidations, knowing what to do and how to help a blind person, etc.
By not opening up to someone about your abilities or anything especially if they are only wanting to know for completely harmless reasons, don't you think you might put forth a bad image about blind people. I know its not right, but most of us go on image and the kind of image you perceive wanting to know more about one's disabilities.
for example, the only way for me to get a good understanding of what my bf goes through on a daily basis is by me asking him about it, the extent of his disabilities, etc. there is only so much you can obtain by looking stuff up on the web. your not getting the true facts of one's abilities unless you spend time with them to observe how they go about doing day to day activities.
well said. I wanted to comment on this as well, but you said everything I wanted to say. I don't mind discussing my disabilities with anyone, but I welcome a bit of inteligence. I hate it when someone says, "Awe, I bet you have to have someone take care of you, don't you?" It's a dreadful assumption, and it indicates that they've already made up their mind on the matter and are only looking for confirmation. if someone wants to discuss it with an open mind though, I'm all ready for it.
Re: posts 53 and 54: I agree with this—as tiring as I find the "how does one do $(action) if one can't see" discussion. As old as that gets, I'd rather deal with that than have to constantly correct someone (No, no, I don't need to be carried across the street because there's no beepy light, despite what you saw in that one movie you saw which was the only exposure you had to blind people before I started working in this office (this has not happened, thankfully)). There's no "how to deal with the blind" manual out there to which people can refer ... which is good, because there's also not a "how to deal with the white" manual, and if you want equality, then equality here also means that you're not subject to a template. Wow ... that rambled.
As to dating the blind vs. dating the sighted, I think my total stands at 3 sighted and 2 blind, which has led me to the conclusion that ... that's a totally irrelevant statistic. Somewhere in there I dated a sighted person who derived a certain amount of identity from being able to fill in and be my eyes (for instance, moving to an area where public transit was readily available seemed, in her opinion, to be totally unnecessary, as I had her now). She also refused to not be sad at my inability to see a sunset—despite the fact that this bothered me not a jot (this attitude seemed to flare up after she took a job reading to the blind at our local university). Whilst this didn't color my opinion of sighted people, it did tell me that the tiny little voice in the back of my head telling me that this particular instance could only end in tears ... was right. One thing I have noticed, though, is that a lot of blind people tend to date a blind person after a relationship with a sighted person goes south. I'd love to hear thoughts on this, if anyone has 'em.
A couple of other questions that have come up—some of you have said that dating a sighted person allows for more spontaneity. How much of this is tied up in the sighted person's ability to drive? I'm presently married to a sighted person who can't drive, and I'm not noticing any increased spontaneity as a result (this could also be because anything we do requires we find a babysitter for our kid, or because I used to be a freelancer that had to travel once or twice a month, and have sort of solved things like being able to get restaurant menus or know where I am in an unfamiliar setting). The other question I had was as to the subject line of the post—"sighted people that date people who are blind". I'm genuinely curious here—does anyone actually prefer the "people first language"? Does that not sort of emphasize the negativity of blindness as a trait? I actually had this discussion over on Facebook once, and the only people who seemed to prefer the politically correct term were able-bodied people whose primary firsthand experience with disability was being called "retarded" on the playground.
Now I don't mind sighted people asking questions about what I can and can't do just out of curiosity, as long as they don't do it 24/7 if they can help it; after all, although constantly talking about one's abilities and/or lack thereof can get boring after a while, I'd much rather sighties ask 20 questions, than make assumptions about what I can and can't do without asking. I'm half awake right now, so I hope this makes sense. lol
with my boyfriend being blind and me being able to drive, I often find that we recipricate each other by him fixing my computer or helping me with math and I have to drive him around. Technically, I don't have to drive, I just choose too and of course he couldn't resist that offer.
I also like the idea of the blind being in regular, sighted schools. More exposure to people with disability is definitely good in the way it brings forth their disability and the students around such person can look at that and see that blind people aren't as helpless as they thought.
I definitely agree with you; while there may be a few advantages to attending a "blind school", us blind/VI folks attending a public school is good for both sighted and blind people, for all the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that it helps blind people feel less self-conscious about being around other sighted people.
I agree with this. When I was a youngin (about oh, say a million and 3 years ago), my vision absolutely sucked. It still sucks a little, but Lordy did it suck then. And my mom wanted to send me to the school for the blind down here in colorado springs, I was like hell naw. Most of those kids had never spent any time surrounded by sighted kids. So of course, they didn't know how to act in the sighted world, or how to interract with sighted people for the most part. I was already in middle school at that point so I had already been through mainstream for most of my life. Blind kids need to learn how to live with sighted people because sadly, it's a sighted world. School is the perfect way to do that, I think.
I also wanna comment on the question. I feel no resentment toward sighted people who date blind people, actually I feel resentment for sighted people who refuse. But that's just me. Anyways, I'm open minded to pretty much everything. I'm sinceer as I can be when I say that personality is what I look for, because what else am I gonna have to deal with? The sight issues I can get over, race and religion, in most cases age, it's all irrelavent. So sighted people who date blind people are good with me since I don't really see how being blind makes you a totally different person than who you'd be as a sighted person, except for, of course, the sheltering problems. If a blind person was sheltered as a kid, they're more likely to be a little different ...
I've dated about 10 blind men, and they were all varried just like sighted men. They were either bad people or good, and most were good. I liked them for them, and not for their sight. It doesn't matter if you can force yourself to look past the sight issues.
Jessie
I think your dating prospects also have a lot to do with who you surround yourself with. most of my friends are sighted, so it follows that most of my partners have been sighted too.
As for educating, I don't mind the occasional question from people who are friends, but I consider it very rude when people just ask you stuff when they don't even know you. I'm not a sideshow or anything like that. I am a person who desires privacy and has feelings etc etc. I don't like it when people just come up to me and think they have the right to just ask me whatever they want, especially when I'd much rather be reading my book or listening to my music and completely ignoring their existance.
The question was ask if we move to a blind person after a relationship with a sighted person has failed? I personally would love to date a blind girl for a while, because mostly I meet girls that see. Why? Not because my relationship failed, but because I'd like to be able to share some things that are specific to blind people. I guess I'd like the experience again. I have before, but not for a while. But that sounds weird, because I don't go looking for a "blend" girl. You find what you find. Yes, questions are good, but making it an issue is not. I don't ask a sighted girl how it feels to be able to see now. Smile. Maybe that is due to me having lots of sight at one time. Dating is that. We are learning about each other, not our specific issues. So she sees, maybe she's directionally challenged? Cant cook? Can't balance her checkbook? I don't say "you can see, so why can't you....." Smile.
Never thought about the blind school from a sighted person's perspective, except taxpayers of course, which come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
I don't see why there is even such a debate anymore since black people, women and other minorities are not segregated. I was fortunate enough to go to desegregated schools, be you blind, black, or what have you. So I had never given it thought beyond the desegregation issue; so thanks for the enlightenment on its effects on sighted people.
Anyway, returning to the topic at hand, the artificial label 'sighted' only applies on a site like this one where we all discuss this sort of thing. In a normal context, people with sight aren't referring to themselves or identifying themselves this way. They, like us, just are.
Blind is nothing more than a legal term defining visual accuity.
As to the topics about how one will do what: I agree if the question is asked as though it had an answer, e.g. nonfalsifiable: 'You must need ...' then sure it would be offensive. But the occasional satisfaction of curiosity is not a problem. Though, like anything, if the person becomes rather obsessed and can't stop talking about it, that would be tiresome.
In my Coast Guard unit, there is a high number of people who live in floating homes. This, too, is something everyone is extremely curious about, everything from how you get the groceries down there to do you own the water, the dock, just the home, or what?
I've just made up my mind since I am both curious and relatively ignorant on the topic, I won't be a pest about it, overloading the floating-home-owners with excessive questions that come from curiosity. And, they do get it all the time.
So, unless the person is asking with a foregone conclusion, then at best they're just curious, and at worst they're being a pest.
As to whether or not they become educated, I have no idea. That would fall to them.
there's lots of debate going on all the time as to either get the next generation to special e.g. blind, deaf, etc etc, vs mainstreem school. from someone who have experience for both school, i would say both school has their plus and miness, it comes to what sort of skills e.g. social, communicatiion, and education skills you want the next generation to be. special school may be good for learning the basic to be a "blind" person or a "social shoultered" person, but yet, it provides the incommon ground for all of the kiddies there. on another hand, in a ,mainstreem school building you the perception and idea of the "real" world, and a "real" community.
beside friends on zone, most of my circle of friends in the real world are sighted. i guess being someone been socialise with the "sighted" world all the time since junior school to now, i precieve myself as sighted person with vision impairement. yes, i may need help every now and then, reading the menu, a sign board, street addresses, bt i never let my blindness to stop me from achieving what i want to achieve in life. yes, i may not able to drive, but i have public transports available for me, if not, i can always get a cab/taxi, or the worse to worse, ask a friend or a contact who can drive to help.
i dont mind being that educator, to educate the world around people with disability. i see my disability as an ability for me to be who i am today. if we keep putting our disability in front of us, then, we will be a "disable person", but not a "person with disability". most of the time, i found that, when other people trying to ask questions regarding our disability not because they are nosy or whatever, is just that they wanting to help but doesn't know how and what to do. yes, they use the wrong way to help us most of the time, but then, that is what we been precieve by holliwood...
as coming back to the question of blind dating sighted or wise verser, what is the different than putting it as "will you dating someone black if you are white" kind of idea? or, "will you dating someone that have different religion than you?". for me, they represent the same idea.
my parents never sent me to a special school and I am so glad that they didn't. my contact with the blind was kept at a minimum also, because my parents didn't want me to make friends just because they were blind and feel more secure around blind people, so as a result I am highly comfortable around sighted people. I am actually less comfortable around blind people who might display blindisms like rocking or moving around impulsively.
I am of the opinion that unless you have a very good intelectual reason not to, children should attend mainstreem schools and simply have living skills training inside them or at home with their families. It's a sighted and able bodied world, and people need to feel comfortable with that from an early age, and sighted and able bodied people need to be more aware of the capabilities of people like us, and that isn't going to happen if we're locked away in special schools and centres.
And then there's the opposite extreme. I know a lady who is blind, never went to a school for the blind or anything. She lived with her parrents in some backwoods hold-in-the-wall place, so they never learned anything about what services were available to her. She didn't know any other blind people, so she felt grosely abnormal well in to her teens. It's difficult growing up with noone to relate to, no?
I think there should be a balance, and like most things in life, there almost never is a perfect balance, so there ya go.
well that's why schools need to take a greater responsibility to make sure that parents are aware of what's out there for blind children who might need them.
I had contact with people who helped me learn how to do basic stuff when I was a child because my parents weren't able enough to teach me to do it. I guess it effects people differently, I never felt like I needed to relate to anyone while I was growing up. I had friends in primary school, and was going through so much crap when I started highschool that being blind was just this small extra annoying factor.
My first, and current, boyfriend is fully sighted. All of my past flings have included sighted and VI men, but none that were completely blind.
My general experience thus far has been that 85% of blind/VI men I've met are painfully, ineptly, cripplingly awkward in person. Physical tics, bad hygiene, inappropriate voice level or conversation topics, inappropriate mental/emotional maturity level for their age, overly dependent, blah blah. I've also found this for around 75% of the blind/VI women I have met. This is an opinion formed after being immersed in various levels of the blind community in New England for 8-9 years now.
I find it more practical to be with sighted men simply because I can use them as guides in an emergency. It's also much easier to find sighted men who are gainfully employed and are already living competent, independent lives in which they've got all of their emotional problems under control.
In the gay comunity there is a term for a girl that is strate but has all gay friends. It may be a strate girl that has all gay men friends I don't really know but the term is fag hag.
There's got to be a term for sighted people who only have blind friends right? there are people like that you know. lol
Before anyone gets afended I'm only joking! well sort of!
Or a turn for blind people who only have sighted friends. Hmmm, interesting thought.
Hehe. Now back to the post. See what I told ya about these indepentant blind women? Lol Ms M you go girl! I've never been to New England, but I'm confedant that all blind women won't fit the description you laid out. You don't now, do you? Smile. Of course these first loves are always the best right? All teasing aside I respect your opinion. Guess you'll never know the joys a blind man might offer. Lol
Miss M, aka Joan Jett and any other young person eager to tell tall tales of ghoulish blind people:
your post made me think of the old shock jock morning drive nut jobs.
During the 1990s when you were still a pee wee, the morning A.M. radio shows spurted and spluttered with gaggery about what gay men got stuck in their orifices . All allegations based on alleged emergency room visits where one guy allegedly knows a guy who knows a nurse who removed <insert anything here> from sociallly-gay-male's <insert orifice here>. For those easily titilated, and alleged gay haters, these tales were all they needed and they just couldn't stop talking about them. You should have seen the morning watering hole / coffee pot at the office. Sounded, frankly, like some on here sound when they talk about goulish blind people.
And *of course*, they all had many gay friends. Of course, the rest of us hadn't really met the really gay people, not according to them.
I finally shut down one of the more prolific ones by asking: You've met my wife, so when do I meet your gay lover?"
Anyway, their stories of alleged emergency room visits are now up for public displeasure on Snopes. I wonder when the alleged titlating tales of blind ghouls who smell bad and crawl like gollem shall equally appear on Snopes?
My guess is to draw conclusions about the blind based upon an institution of some kind is as logical as drawing conclusions about gay men from what you see with the Sisters and the Bull Queers in <insert correctional facility here>. But I remember the 90s and the people telling such tales did look like they were having fun. At that time I got offended by their antics. Better I'd have been just to laugh at fools having a fool's good time.
One, going on with strange things
That's just what springs to mind whenever I hear these allegations on here, truly nonfalsifiable claims just like the shock jocks.
For someone who is totally blind, things like body language is pretty much beyond the scope of imagination, unless some extensive coaching was used. There's no way that a totally blind person can pick up on all the movements, and if the parrents were backwoods and the institutions didn't think the blind people would ever amount to much to begin with, body language and the likes simply wouldn't be a priority, so I can see both sides to this one. Throw in a severe hearing loss and you're pretty much separate, unable to interact with society. So sure, some social skills would almost be expected to suffer. just my thoughts.
Hmm Miss M I do see your point because at one time I was had this type of thinking, you would have not paid me a dime to date a fully blind lady. However, that changed when I met my x Girl friend on here. Though I do agree some blindy habits could stand to get lost fore those who do have them. Such as the rocking and movement of his or her head. It would so greatly improve peoples chances to get a job if they could leave that behavior in the past. yet that is fore another topic.
I can't stand it when one blind person thinks he or she is better than all the rest. if you are blind, and you don't exhibit these so-called "blindisms", you're an exception to this rule you've made up, are you not? So, are you the only exception? Are there no other blind people in the world who have learned to overcome these behaviors? And even those people who continue to act like all the blind people you claim to know, don't forget most of them live extremely sheltered lives where everybody pities them, and very few people, if anybody bother to call them on their behavior because either they think they couldn't handle such criticism, or they think it won't matter because they'll never live alone and function in the real world anyway. if you've never managed to get away from this sheltered life, how will you know any different? I'm not excusing the behavior, but just like any other person in the world, people grow up in all kinds of different environments, and come from many different types of backgrounds. that's really the same thing as saying that all sighted people are close-minded about blindness and the things blind people are capable of.
I agree with you leo, people do grow up in all kinds of backgrounds and environments, and I'm simply adding the phrase, and I don't want to date a girl who grew up in that kind of situation. Call me whatever negative thing you like, I don't want to date a girl who can't shower/shave/dress herself/brush her teeth, or who is constantly rocking/swinging her head/shoving her fist in her eye/looking down at the ground all the time. Now, that is not to say I won't date blind girls, because I will, and have, and am willing to again, providing they don't exhibit those habits.
Do I think I'm better than all blind people, absolutely not. I know several people who are better than I am in many areas, but that is not to say I have no meant people with abhorantly bad social skills, and not all of it can be blamed on an institution or the environment in which they're raised. I knew one girl in a public high school, who simply did not want to try. How do I know she didn't want to try, because when all the professionals couldn't make her do it, they asked me to try, and when she thought they weren't around, she started doing everything they'd taught her.
She'd found out that she could get what she wanted a lot easier by claiming she was helpless, rather than doing it herself.
So, will I date a blind girl, yes, I don't think that has a baring on whether or not I date a girl. Will I date a girl with what I deem inappropriate or disturbing social or physical habits, absolutely not, blind or sighted. So I don't really see what your point is, everyone else is just pointing out things they dislike about a majority of the blind people we run into in our lives. I know its been the majority of mine.
Thus the little disclaimer. I'm saying the majority, but not all. I've got my quirks and oddnesses just as any human does. I have just found that, unfortunately, I have few female friends - and even fewer male friends - in the small section of the real world blind and VI community that share my interests and lifestyle. Perhaps I should have whitewashed my first statement and said this instead. :P
That being said, I think it definitely does come down to the person and persons involved. Level of eyesight shouldn't determine a relationship, the same way race shouldn't. Anyone should date anyone they want so long as they're in agreement and it's safe for both parties. Myself, personally, I've just found more luck in the sighted community.
most the Indian blind girls are wasting their lives by dreaming or imagining of a sighted guy as their partners. As I've already mentioned somewhere in the boards, most the sighted men in india will never date or marry a blind girl. They think their status is getting reduced or something similar. On the other hand, a few sighted girls are coming forward to date or marry a blind guy at least for his income or property whatever.
But, as I'm not interested in dating/marrying a girl who she is coming forward to date or marry a blind man, by looking at his income or his property, I've well decided, as I'll never ever go with such a sighted business minded women.
I'd rather be myself, I say.
Raaj
I can understand why anyone would be put off by these behaviors. I would be, too. However, what I have a problem with is people saying they won't date a blind person, period, because they've met too many blind people who don't know how to take care of themselves.
To those people I'd point out the blind guy who climbed Everest with some general assistance.
I would say with any blind individual who has blindisms such as rocking the head and poking eyes, it is definitely a little embarrassing to be seen in publicn with someone doing that. I am very thankful that my boyfriend isn't like that and I don't know if I could date anyone who was like that being honest.
I understand completely. It's one thing if they're willing to work on changing their behavior for the better, but if not, no go.
I agree completely... While I understand that everyone including myself has at least a few qwirks, whether they're extremely noticeable or not, I don't think I could necessarily tolerate dating someone who has the previously mentioned habbets which unfortunately, are predominantly among the "blind comunity"; however, I do understand that noone is perfect, and there may be a legitimate cause for such behavior, so if said person was willing to work on curbing these habbets for the better, then I'd consider giving them a chance.
I'm not sure this is a blindy attitude or not, but whenever I'm much bored and lonely, I do have only habit and that is biting my nails. and that's not while I'm at my home. only while I'm awaitin for someone or something.
it's not taking place for a long days, though.
Raaj
That's not strictly a habit limitted to blind people. sighte people do that too.
ah nice. then I don't have any blindy attitudes or blindy addictions. lol. I'm sure those who are having such abnormal attitudes, can be rectified with self-control.
In fact, since my eyes are same as sighted person, most of them doubt my blindness either. If I'm going to get a blind certificate from an ophthomologist, they use to examine a lots. by putting some drops, diluting my eyeballs and blah blah blah. rather many of my blind friends will get it easily without any tests.
Raaj.
Sighted woman here, who has gone out with a VI guy in the past.
When considering someone as a potential partner, the eyesight or lack thereof is one of the last things I consider... I'm more interested in the personality of the person. Someone can be a first class asshole regardless of whether or not he can see/hear/walk etc.
I'm of the opinion that a visual impairment is just a technicality... after all, as Wayne pointed out earlier, there are things that I cannot do as a sighted person that he and a lot of other Zoners could easily kick my sorry sighted ass at doing (other than braille... please don't ask, as I've hit a stumbling block). So you can't see as well as I can... I don't give a shit and I'm not about to let that stop me from liking you for who you are.
If we click and we're both sighted, that's great. If we click and I'm the sighted person in the relationship, then that's great too... you could be blind and have stinky body odour, eleven fingers and eight toes and it wouldn't really be an issue to me if our personalities clicked... well, the body odour would be a turn off, but I think you get my point.
As in any relationship, there's going to be a natural awkwardness/getting to know you phase and I will ask questions... some of them may seem out of line or silly to someone from the VI world, but I ask only so that I can get an idea of where my sightedness may be of some benefit and not because, as Grif fears, you are supposedly some sort of freak show to be stared at... as someone who was abnormally large growing up and as a result was stared at/had people whispering in front of like I'm some sort of animal who couldn't see the stares and hear the whispers, I can totally understand where Griff is coming from.
I don't know what your limitations are, and as far as I am concerned, you and I are equals in every sense of the word, but if I don't ask a few basic questions up front to try and find my place in the relationship and in your life, as far as the sighted/visual impairment issue goes, then it could very well lead to confusion and frustration and annoyance later on.
Confidential to Bryan22... I'm sorry that your ex was such a heartless bitch. I can't believe all of the stuff she said about being resentful that you wanted to find a job... if that were me in her shoes, I'd bend over backwards to help you try and find work... I don't know what you'd be interested in doing, but I'd be behind you 110% to help you find it and get there. As for all of that other shit she did to you and used that "oh, I forgot you hated that," that's just down right rude. On behalf of all of the normal sighted women out there, I do apologize to you for her behaviour... she does not represent the rest of us sighted women.
So, blinks can have bad habbits and mannerisms too, just make sure that it's a habbit or mannerism that sighted people have as well and it'll all be okay. Since the blind people can't watch the sighted people, to pick up on habbits and mannerisms, it might be a bit tough to learn, "Sighted" habbits, but I'm sure it could be done. Not sure why this concept amuses me so much, but it does.
All people have behaviors they can't live with in others, blind, sighted or one-legged frog.
I still say the major concern in a blind-sighted relationship is not these meth-infested scrawny squealy types making up things about behaviors.
The real concern, and I personally think the onus is on us as blind people, is the high amount of discrimination the now-ulnerable sighted individual will face. If we own it / deal with the situation properly then whether or not the relationship goes off smoothly, damage caused by relationship sabotage by discriminating people can be minimized.
May sound overly paternalistic / protectionist, but the reality is most sighted people don't have the life experience dealing with these types of reactions, at least not like we blind people have. Consequently in the relationship, their protection is our responsibility IMHO.
I still say it's not a matter of being blind or sighted. I know sighted women that are not clean, pick there noses in public, curse over much, and are generally not desirable as a date, so that is not a blind thing, it is a people thing. They can see right, so why don't the practice hygene? Brush your teethat least once a day? Because we, as pointed out, can't see sighted people we assume we are the group that has these things, but its not so.
I certainly agree.
We sighties need to set a good example
Why do quote on quote, "sighties" need to set an example? there are so many different groups: blind people, deaf people, people with any number of learning disabilities, people who can't walk, people with addictions, young people, old people, insecure people and the list goes on and on. Everyone has their quirks.
Exactly. There are plenty of sighted folks who have quirks like the ones mentioned above, but sadly, I've seen more blind/VI people with them than sighted people, but I'm definitely not saying all blind people exhibit such behaviors. But what really annoys me; and I'm sure this has been mentioned by other people before, is when sighted people assume that one's blindness has everything to do with why they have those kinds of habbets.
I think that post may have been in jest.
A question that's puzzled me for some time ... if a blindy rocks back and forth in their chair in rhythm with whatever music is playing at the time, it's a blindism—and if a sighty does it, it's chairdancing. Discuss.
No I'm serious. I had lots of site once, and of course blind people have these habits, or traits only because as children no one has taken the time to simply teach them different. As a sighted person you have the visual clues of your neighbors, and will most likely be teased if you attend school, but that doesn't always solve the problem. Lazy is lazy. As I say simple things are easy to help with, such as if your date doesn't wash his or her clothes correctly, well some help might just do the trick, however, you might not even think about dating that person due to these things. If you get past them and learn she or he's a nice person, then you can deal. Also as a blind person, if you can't smell anything you'll knot know until you get close to them. I personally have not met a blind girl that simply didn't care. Some didn't dress as well, but they didn't smell and bath regularly. If you have not been helped in dressing, or given fashion tips how are you gonna know? Now with sighted you can look around and see, so.I just think it comes down to laziness or lack of teaching. Now the other things, such as cutting food, and not knowing about things is not a worry to me. As I suggested before I enjoy helping and if I'm going to be that close I can cut her food while out, and we'll learn at home, or just order it pre cut. Simple solved. No need to make a person feel poorly about something they haven't been helped with.
If you can't cut food, and you're with one of these meth-infested pacifier-chewin' spazzes, go out for Oriental food.
Seriously: when I was in Japan, one night I did an American dinner for the host family ... did steaks. Not sayin' Texas Rare but just sayin'.
The host father exclaimed uncut meat is what you serve to dogs!
So, I gommenna-sai'ed took the plate to the kitchen, took a blade and commenced dissection. Brought it back reasonably well cut up though I'm positive it lacked the finnesse they have for such things.
So, while a meth-infested spazz gets all uptight if you can't cut your food blind, just remember that steak I almost served there in Japan.
I've heard from two people who were blinded as adults and said they just couldn't do it. And, who am I to say? I grew up the way I am, and learned it. If that's the biggest nagging feeling you've got about people maybe we oughta helo-drop ya in Afghanistan for a few weeks give you some perspective.
There's a difference between lacking the skills and lacking the will to learn them. If someone lacks the former, there's no harm in pointing that out to them, and if they do not lack the latter, things should go quite smoothly.
I just know in my experience some blind girls did not have some basic things that were regular to a sighted woman, but these things weren't anything to bother over. Example, traveling. Well if you can see you don't need to learn how to travel, or cross a street. That cutting food, or say putting salad from a serving bowl on to your plate. If you can see it you know its on your spoon or whatever, but if not its difficult to feel for some. House cleaning. Now not all sighted women know how to clean, but they do have the advantage of seeing if a spill is wiped up if they try. A blind woman need to use a few more skills to get it done, specially if you have lived in a house it was done for you. These are just a few things that aren't worth bothering over. As posted if a person has a will to learn then your set, but I'll not be saying I'll never date a blind woman because she won't be able to..... Forget it. We can get it handled. But saddly some blind people even here have posted they simply will not. Your choice. Smile.
@Tallin... If I saw a blink rocking back and forth in their chair in rhythm with whatever music is playing at the time, I'd just assume that they too are chair dancing and enjoying the music... it would never occur to me that it's a blindism... trut be told, I've never heard the term blindism until just now.
Now that I think of it, watching Stevie Wonder playing his music and weaving back and forth... I'd never considered that some would call his movement a blindism... I would just assume that he was groving to his music not unlike how a sighted gospel or R and B musician might do.
@Tallin... If I saw a blink rocking back and forth in their chair in rhythm with whatever music is playing at the time, I'd just assume that they too are chair dancing and enjoying the music... it would never occur to me that it's a blindism... trut be told, I've never heard the term blindism until just now.
Now that I think of it, watching Stevie Wonder playing his music and weaving back and forth... I'd never considered that some would call his movement a blindism... I would just assume that he was groving to his music not unlike how a sighted gospel or R and B musician might do.
A lot of musicians, sighted or blind, tend to move with their instruments. When we're talking blindisms, there is a tendency for the blind to self-stimulate by rocking back and for when bored, nervous, etc., because babies would normally learn from watching their older peers that this behavior is no longer acceptable after a certain age
No, he does it when he's just being interviewed. This is exactly what I mean. His handlers could have fixed that problem easy, but they didn't even care enough to do so, or take pains with his dress. It wasn't until he was grown and could make some choices that his dress improved to some extent. You can't really blame a blind child for know learning things if they are never given the opertunity. In his case I'm sure after a while he was told, but then it was just so comfortable and he's a big time dude, well. In his case it works, but for others no.
Hmmm... I like this the sighted expressing their experiences with us blindies. Not sure if this is a general behavior or blindy but sometimes I find expressing me in person is not all ways a easy thing to do. i tend to speak rather low and have to correct it. Kinda annoying but I hate those who just plain yell when there talking. Just saying its not the person just how loud there talking.
As someone with a severe hearing loss, I do have to pay attention, so I don't talk too loud.
Nah, no resentment here. Lol. Do what best suits you, I say. My boyfriend is blind, and he's actually the first man I've officially been with, sexually and otherwise. So yeah...
The way I see it, no human being, blind, sighted, deaf, anything, is without his or her quirks. But in my experience, sighted people tend to think everything they do is okay and acceptable. There are plenty of things that annoy the crap out of me about sighted people. I'll give just a few of my many turnoffs.
Arrogance, for one. A lot of sighted people just seem to have this, I own the world, attitude, and we as a minority aren't important enough to do more than sneer at. I think not. And how about those people who are just closed-minded that they don't even bother to assume that maybe, just maybe, we can actually speak, think, and learn for ourselves. I can't tell you how many times people will ask someone else something they should be asking me when I'm standing right in front of them! Then they get ticked off when I speak up!
And no matter how many times I kindly but firmly point out that if they have a question or concern about me, they should direct it to me, they either laugh or ignore me. Unless, that is, a sighted person I happen to be with gives the okay.
And I have to laugh at sighties whose common sense has all but escaped them. Someone once asked me how I wipe myself after going to the bathroom. My response was, do you look back there when you're doing that?
Also, some sighted people seem to be obsessed with anything that makes noise: tongue clacking, foot tapping, pen clicking, clapping or smacking their hands on things when talking, sighing... I could go on, but I won't. And I absolutely refuse to talk to someone who is pacing back and forth! to me, this is worse than the whole rocking thing! And when they get fidgety and I point it out, they get angry. They know I can't see it, but I hear it.
Maybe these are just my annoying experiences, and I'm not saying all sighties are like that. But I can't tolerate being around someone or with him if he wants to criticize or underestimate me without acknowledging his own shortcomings.
Dracula. Another sighted guy started a board quite similar to this one a few years back. It hasn't been posted to in over a year, so it's locked, but I thought that it was an interesting read, so I'll paste the address here, in case you care to have a look.
http://www.zonebbs.com/boards.php?t=20863
How does the Visual go about finding the Non-Visual?
to daydreamer1085, do you ever stop to think that you, too, probably do things that're annoying to people?
But the whole point being that we blinks have all these bad habbits, so it's kind of nice to see it from the other side, no?
everyone has bad habits. and, I don't like the term "blink". *shrugs*.
Oh ok we damned bats then ... lol
Seriously though, anyone who obsesses about the alleged bad habits of others has obviously way too much time on their hands. You should see the foolishness some alleged adults will come to you with as a manager: how someone emptied the coffee grounds into the garbage rather than recycling, how someone recycled the coffee grounds rather than put them down the drain, how someone did this, did that, etc. So, for those who have made up the word blind-ism etc. find something to do: else, if you're young enough, Daddy may just come along and find you something to do. If not young enough: perhaps Daddy should have long ago.
I used to think this type of belly-aching was pointless. But after having been a manager I now know it's not just pointless, it's a flat-out waste of resources.
I doubt any of said belly-aching really has to do with sight, religion or lack thereof: it's just someone who has yet to exchange the diaper for a decent pair of pants.
I don't particularly like the term "blink" either, but could really care less after all...but anyway, to post 103, I can definitely see where you're coming from; if a "blindy", or anybody for that matter has been sheltered their entire life, and never taught that behavior like that isn't always acceptable, how is the fact that they behave like that after they're already adults necessarily their fault? This all goes back to what I said in one of my earlier posts; if said person was willing to work on putting an end to those habbets, or work on being more independent (whatever the case may be), I'd consider giving them a chance. After all, although things like that can get rather annoying, and in some cases can be a turn off, I judge more on personality than I do trivial things like that.
well said, Leo; my thoughts exactly.
This is a great and interesting topic.
For anyone who is interested, I'll share my experience:
Up until my current relationship, all of my boyfriends were either blind or visually impaired. Some could see enough to drive, but would be losing that sight shortly, while another could not see at all. The upside to dating someone with a disability similar to mine is that you don't get the awkward questions, and you don't have to worry about them not understanding hwy you need certain things like technology or guide dogs or what have you, there are definitely downsides. There's the lack of transportation at times, and not knowing how you look and that kind of thing. Not to say that looks are all that matters, but living in a materialistic world, I personally like when a guy can tell me I'm beautiful, and I know he can see to prove it. It is true that beauty is measured in many ways aside from actual looks, and it does still mean a great deal when someone who cannot see my outward appearance says it, but it means something else, and in my personal opinion something more, when someone who can see me says it.
I am currently dating a fully sighted guy, with a driver's license and, while he's at home, a car. This is an amazing convenience when we want to get away somewhere alone. The downsides to this relationship, concerning the fact that he is sighted, are that he sees absolutely everything I do, and therefore I get a lot of questions and observations. I am lucky to have parents who did not allow me to do things such as rock or poke my eyes. I went to public schools my whole life, so I grew up with sighted friends, but I went to several programs aimed at blind students, so I had blind friends too. In this way, I had people to relate to about my disability, but I did not lose sight of the "real world" either. My boyfriend now is understanding about telling me what I need to know, such as that there is something on my face or that my clothes don't match, because I have made it clear to him that these things are important to me to know in order to live a normal life. I, too, want to be seen as equal, and I know that my current boyfriend sees me that way, however I, too, have experienced discrimination from his female friend's grandmother who said, "Oh, that's so nice of him to date a blind girl." I am not a person to be pitied, and I do not enjoy being viewed that way, but I accept that this is her prospective, and not that of my boyfriend. Therefore, if ever I encounter this woman in real life, I will make a serious effort to show her the things I can do, so that she will hopefully have a more positive and accurate view of me as an equal person, rather than just a blind person.
To answer the question, I have no resentment. I think it's awesome that a sighted person is open-minded enough to date a blind person. I just do not like that that sighted person's friends or family members may not be open-minded to it, and may therefore start awkward conversations or say somewhat rude things. However, if they do so, then it is kind of a test to the sighted partner whether or not they truly are willing to be with the blind person.
To fighter of love and life:
Naturally. Hence, I used the term EVERYONE, in case you missed it, which in no way excludes me, you, the president of the united states, or anyone else on this planet. Of course I know I do things that annoy people, and I am sure you do as well. There is no need for juvenile rudeness. And if voicing my opinion is a crime, sue me.
I agree with the last post completely.
daydreamer1085, defensive much? wow.
and to be perfectly frank, I do not know anyone who has had contact with blind people to be "arrogant". of course naturally, when you first meet someone with a disability you don't know anything about, your going to have questions which may be constrewed as arrogance. However, this form of arrogance is not bad. I've said this before, us, sighties are asking you questions is the best for us to understand you better as both a person, and how you live your life. If you don't want us asking you questions, we will just avert to assuming your completely helpless with no future what so ever.
although us sighties may seem like we don't know anything about blind people or have annoying habbits, we are learning and every day, the issue of accessibility is becoming a public issue and it is another form of positive publicity.
Oi, again, I'm pretty sure noone said every sighted person was as arrogant as post 116 says, in fact, he did say that not all sighties are like that. And as I said before, I personally am okay with sighties asking questions out of curiosity, as long as they can avoid asking wayyyyyyy too many at once. :p But of course, I'd rather them do that than just make assumptions that we're helpless without asking anything in order to learn how we as "blindies" go about doing certain things...
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Anthony @105... I wouldn't worry too much about talking too loud... you should hear my Dad when he talks on his cell phone in public... on more than one occasion, I've had to tell him "Dad! Not so loud or go outside!" because I can hear him half way across the room.
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It's not question asking that I find arrogant. I welcome reasonable questions... not something like how do I wipe my ass, for example. To me, that's just someone being an idiot, or thinking they're funny. Like I'm sure many of you do, I hope that by asking questions, people will understand a bit and want to get to know me as a person, rather than make incorrect assumptions and see me as a disability as opposed to a human being. But the kind of arrogance I'm talking about has nothing to do with asking questions. What I am referring to is the myriad of sighties I have dealt with, and still do, members of my own family included, who think that because I'm blind, I have to do whatever they say and abide by their every word, because somehow, seeing makes them all knowing. I can't even begin to count how many times I've heard, 'I can see. I know what's best for you and what to do, you sure can't and don't. So you need to stop being so stubborn and self-sufficient, and listen to me.' That's the kind of arrogance I'm talking about. And again, this is my own personal experience with family, teachers, peers, etc. Not to say that every single last sighted person I've ever known is like this, but the majority of the ones I know or have encountered are. And it makes me sick, because I am independent and have my own views, likes, dislikes, interests, hobbies, and life in general. And the one question I have for them is, is it not my life to live? Because I sure think it is.
I havwe never called a sighted person a 'sightie'. Wondering: does that sound patronizing to someone sighted? If people like us don't want to be known by our lack of vision, I would say fair is fair: we shouldn't categorize sighted people because they have it.
Ironically, people have varying degrees of it even withing the context of being legally sighted: My wife now has a pair of reading glasses as many people do in mid 40s. My marine Major of a brother has such sharp eyesight he is a renowned sharpshooter amongst his kind.
Okay...so you're saying they "know what's best for you, and you don't, because they can see and you can't"? Uh...wow...I see what you're saying now. I've had that happen to me more than once, but not too often thankfully. And when it did happen, I was quick to prove the person (s) in question wrong...Now I'm not saying I know everything, or that the person who tried to pull the same crap on me didn't know at least a thing or two, but believe me, if anyone "knows what's best for me", the reason they do has absolutely nothing to do with my eye condition...
I am new to this posting business, but just from looking at this topic, I notice that people who are blind not only refer to themselves as blindies... for whatever reason, but I have heard sighted people used the term as well. So is it fair after all that blind people should be called blindies and the term should not be turned around for sighted people? I think both terms are odd, and I personally dislike being called a "blink" myself as well. But why is it okay for one and not the other? Just my curiosity coming out here.
I have to wonder if there's any aspect of life that's free from double standards. I can't decide whether to go all fatalistic and accept double standards as part of human nature or to protest against them myself.
Unfortunately, I do not think double standards can be entirely avoided. They are everywhere, in one form or another. It is not fair, I know. But I have been told since I can just barely remember that life itself is not fair.
actually leo now that you mention it, I don't like being called a sighty.
To Your face!,
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. These people think that just because they can see and I can't, somehow they know better what's best for me than I do. And I agree: I sure as hell don't know everything. But who does? And many times, no matter how quick I was to prove them wrong, they only insisted further that I needed to accept that I am handicapped and need a good deal of help. Not so. Of course I'll ask for help if needed, and if I need it when offered, I'll take it. But if someone sighted offers it to me and I politely refuse, why is it so hard for them to handle? In fact, they get outright offended and can become quite nasty at times!
I wish I was in your shoes and didn't have it happen very often. But the truth is it happens to me at least once a day. And if I had to deal with a boyfriend like that, I think I'd lose my head.
And Misaki, I think you're right. There's no escaping double standards as they are everywhere for everyone. And life surely isn't fair all the time. Bottom line as I see it: If you don't like something being done to you, you ought to think twice about doing it to someone else.
I do agree that such questions like "How do you wipe your ass?", and "How do you leave your house alone?" are just a result of people not using their heads. However, questions like "How do you use a computer?", for example, are perfectly normal. Not all sighted people know about screen readers, and they're just curious. Nothing wrong with that. As long as they're genuinely curious and not intending to be degrading, I have all the time in the world. I'd rather that than people just assuming we're worthless and will never amount to anything on our own. Just as it's not fair to say all or most blind people exhibit so-called "blindisms", it's not fair to say most sighted people are willfully ignorant or anything of the sort. Even if most of the sighted people a particular person knows are this way, one person alone can't know even a quarter of the sighted people that actually walk this earth. Experiences shape our lives, yes, but once again, one person's experience doesn't speak for the entire world. My suggestion for anyone whose close relatives seem intent on remaining willfully ignorant is to get out into the world and prove them wrong. You know what's best for yourself more than anyone else. if they fail to see that, that's just too bad for them, but it should neither stop you from living your life nor prevent you from getting out there and seeking other people with different outlooks on life.
YourFace... thus the reason why I ask seemingly dumb questions... as stated before, I don't know the extent of your abilities (I refuse to call it a disability because there are things you lot can do that would leave my sighted ass in the dust), so I need to know just what your limitations are so that we can work around them. I don't think that people in the Visually Impaired world are any less capable than their counterparts who can see.
In regards to a term of reference to use, what word/term/phrase would you prefer kids like me to use when referring to your community? Come to a general agreement and tell me and I'll be more than happy to use that term.
I don't know. the phrase "blind people" seems okay to me. I'm not necessarily offended by the term "blindy" or "blink", but I don't like them and will most likely call you on it if I hear you say it directly to me. Honestly, what would you think of me if I went around saying, "Oh look! it's a bunch of sighties. I wonder what those sighties are talking about over there. . man, those sighties really are cool sometimes". it may not bother you, but would you prefer it if given the choice?
Wow this was thread Jacked LOL.
How about my name? Smile I am not a community. I don't get offendant by a title, but my name as your name seems to work just fine, don't you agree? If you see a group of blind people you say "look at these people over their, they are all blind, or seem to be" The reason I say seem to be is I knew a perfectly sighted girl that hung out with a couple of us that could not see who pretended to be blind. She had a cane and all. We figured it out, but still. Lol
I've had people ask me anything from how I eat (not cook but actually eat), to how I had sex. And then there was my most recent x, who was definitely one of those whoseemed to feel I should neither attempt nor want to do things for myself. She didn't want me getting a job or even a guide dog. She didn't want me getting a job because A.s he had one and B. my getting a job would cut into our time together. I suspect, however, that the real reason was that she didn't want any outside influences in my life. Then of course she had that tendency to leave things lying around and play stupid, childish pranks on me.
Bryan.. I'd assume that you eat just like me... with fingers or utensils (fork, knife, spoon, chopstick etc) as the situation warranted (i.e, soup with a spoon, sushi with chopsticks, steak with a fork and knife).
As for sex, assuming that you are indeed a heterosexual guy (and I don't doubt this, but in the crazy world that is the interwebs, one just never knows for sure), I would imagine that you would fit your tab A into your partner's slot b.
Your ex girlfriend is still a heartless bitch, end of. I thank my luck stars that you are no longer with her.
Well any hot women that ask me how I have sex can get the personal teaching experience. The rest will just have to wonder. Lol. Now about that eating. I normally just use 2 fingers on my right hand. You can't eat with the left, because that is the hand you wipe with.
Overgeneralizing is something everyone does, sometimes without meaning it. I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone on here thinks all sighted people or all blind people are the same. Personally, I try to look at everyone as just a person before I take into account that they're blind or sighted or deaf or whatever else. I'm inclined to believe that a lot of people do that, too.
The term blind people seems most appropriate when referring to a group of people who are blind, but honestly I think that is only necessary when discussing specifically that all of those people are blind. Otherwise, just people is appropriate.
Now, I, too, strongly prefer when people ask me questions instead of make assumptions or ask those around me questions. Nothing bugs me more than going out and having someone ask my boyfriend what I want to eat before asking me. Usually, I'll jump in and answer the question for myself. I think it's important to greet this kind of attitude with warmth instead of anger because if you respond to someone angrily or irritatedly, they probably aren't going to take you seriously, or, more than likely, they'll just make another generalization: Man, those blind folks are angry. Haha, so I think it's important to just act cool and try to quietly prove your independence. Always welcome questions, too. You don't have to necessarily answer every single one, because certain ones can be kind of offensive, but encouraging people to ask questions is really good. It opens their minds and also opens communication between the two of you. When someone asks a question that is seeminly rude or ignorant, just respond with something like, "Well, how do you do such and such?" I think we all get those dumb questions: How do you get dressed? How do you eat? How do you walk around alone? But, even these questions need to be answered sometimes. Some people may not understand how it is that we match our clothes, eat confidently, and navigate with canes or dogs.
Well said, Sarah.
Now, while I agree with what has been said, I wanna kind of turn this discussion a slightly different direction; I know Sarah mentioned waiters/waitrases (not sure I spelled that right) at certain restaurants asking her boyfriend instead of her what she wanted to eat, but have any of you had people assume you use sign language after they've been told you can't see? Or has anyone ever just walked away from you after finding out you can't see, or for fear that you might injure them, has anyone ever jumped over your cane while you were simply walking and minding your own business? I know some of these sound like stupid questions, but I, like probably plenty of other blind people have had them happen to me in the past, and sometimes, I personally found some incidents like the ones I just mentioned either funny or extremely annoying. So I was just curious as to whether or not any of you have had things like that happen to you. :p
wow. that happened a lots with me. while we few blind friends were going together by holding the hands, few sighted guys teased us as horning like a train. and, a few times, sighted guys gave me some money all of a sudden thinking that I'm begging. I said, I'm sorry sir, I'm not a begger, give that to some begger he may accept it.
Raaj.
Quote Forereel
How about my name? Smile I am not a community. I don't get offendant by a title, but my name as your name seems to work just fine, don't you agree? If you see a group of blind people you say "look at these people over their, they are all blind, or seem to be" The reason I say seem to be is I knew a perfectly sighted girl that hung out with a couple of us that could not see who pretended to be blind. She had a cane and all. We figured it out, but still. Lol
End quote...
Yes, I try to use proper names whenever possible.... but when I'm referring to everyone here as a whole, how am I to reference you? I could say "you lot" but that seems rather cold and unfriendly.
I am not comfortable with "blindies" because... well, it just feels odd to my ears.
Blinks I am a little more comfortable with, but there are some who are not... EVERYONE blinks, so it's not meant to be derogotory.
I don't care if you refer to me as a sighted because that's what I happen to be (in addition to crazy and a number of other things)... that's just my personal preference.
Someone please clue this crazy sighted in?
Thanks!
The problem with finding an all-encompassing term is that only a small percentage of blind people have absolutely no eyesight. Some, like me have light perception but otherwise don't see anything else and others have varrying levels of eyesight but might be considered legally blind or in some cases low vision or partially sighted. See, I told ya it wasn't easy. So with these various situations you've got people like me who are pretty comfy with being referred to as blind, none of this visually impaired or challenged crap as there's really no vision that is being challenged or impaired, outside of seeing light it just plain straight-up doesn't exist. But with those who might have some usable eyesight they might not want to identify as blind. Yeah, complicated.
I can not tell you how many times people have thought I use sign language to communicate. As a matter of fact, there was one instance where I was sitting on a bench in the park, waiting for my father. I knew there was someone somewhere near me: I had heard movement. I paid it no mind... generally, I am not a people person and do not consider myself very outgoing with strangers at all. But then, my father comes and says, "Sir, my daughter is blind. She cannot see that you are signing at her." Then the guy just turned and ran off. My father said he had never seen someone look so embarrassed. I have often had people think I am mute. And as wrong as this may be, sometimes I do not mind, only because I am so terribly shy and just freeze up when it comes to talking to people I do not know, especially in large groups. It is something I have been trying to work on for years, but my progress is painfully slow.
And I have had people do everything from jumping over my cane, to screaming when I get within ten feet of them with it. "She is going to attack me!" is one exclamation I often hear. Oh, and how about those people who think it is funny to try to kick your cane away from you as you are walking? And then if they trip, they get on your case about it, even if you say "excuse me," or "please do not do that." I was chased for three blocks by a group of fellow students when I was in high school because one of them tripped over my cane while trying to kick it away from me on my way home. So is it a game of some sort? Or are people just looking for attention when they do such senseless things and then try to pass it off as your fault?
Ok, if you have some term, phrase, or word that you would like to be referred by at all times, write it on a sign, and hang it around your neck. Otherwise, don't get pissed off when people don't pull it out of thin air. How are they supposed to know that you prefer to be called blind, while the person next to you prefers to be called visually impaired? Unless you have it tattooed across your forehead, they're not gonna know.
Besides that fact, its... a... word. If your offended by words, curl up in a dark hole and whimper until you die, because I can promise you here and now, that a whole lot of people could not possibly care less about the fact that your offended. They will speaks how they like, write how they like, and do everything else how they like, and your offendeness be damned. And guess what you get to do afterwards, that's right, get over it. They have the right to speak as they like, you do not have the right to not be offended.
Thus, you can either continue to yell and scream like children who got called stupid, or you can grow up and learn that words mean nothing.
I'm not offended by these terms. I'm just not going to talk to someone who's going to call me a blink, yet somehow expects me to respond with their name, or some other polite term. If you're going to call someone a particular term, don't get bent out of shape if they respond similarly. Joking is one thing, and I don't bat an eye at that, but I find myself losing respect for people as soon as I hear the "fucking blink" phrase, especially when it's from other blind people who somehow think they're above that, but nobody else is.
But its just a term, what if they don't mean it in a dorogatory way? After all, calling someone blind for example, might be the natural reflex, but someone who is visually impaired may get offended at that. How can you get mad at the term?
You ever noticed you don't scream the phrase, "I love you"? You know why, cuz its the sentament behind it that matters. You don't scream that because your feelings that are behind it are gentle and quiet and calm. On the other hand, have you ever heard someone use the N word cheerfully? Probably not, because anyone cheerful about black people, doesn't use that word.
Terms are just breath through a voicebox, nothing more. Why in the world would you get offended at them?
Another example. Whenever I see my best friend, I call him a son-of-a-bitch, and he calls me a blind asshole. Now, if I did that to anyone else, I might get my teeth knocked out, but he knows what's behind it.
You have to get offended at the reason behind the word, not the word itself.
I call blind people blinks all the time, I don't mean it negatively, I just think it sounds less clinical than blind people.
A word like blink is more of an incumpasser. It can include people who are totally blind, have light perception, have useable vision and so forth. It's just a quick and easy term. Nothing to be upset about, IMO. I don't usually hear blind people using it in a way that demonstrates superiority. For example, "Us blinks." The speaker is included in the name, no?
to each their own, but I don't like it, either. I'm blind, not visually impaired...and definitely not a blink.
As I said I don't care if people use it, but if you are meeting me just use my name. Not, oh there's that blink, or blind guy. How about theirs Forereel, or my neighbor, or the guy that lives down the street? I mean "damn, I hear that sight woman again." hahaha. As for the other stuff that just makes me laugh except for someone trying to kick your cane. I guess that has never happened to me, but the rest has, and it is funny to me. Maybe I would get someone trying to kick my cane if they weren't afraid I might use it to spank that ass. Lol.
If some one asks me how I have sex! well lets see "I put in the whole I find first! even if is their ear." lol lol :) Sorry if you ask such as stupid question you get a dumb ass answer!.
Silver.. you can call blind/visually impaired people blinks and get away with it because you are part of that community.... just like I could (if I so desired, but definitely do not) call myself and Seamaiden Japs or Nips... we are both of Japanese ancestry.... however, if anyone else called either of us those two term I'd be offended, because of the historically derogatory nature of the term.
Forereel... of course I'd call you Wayne or Forereel whenever I'm talking to you or about you directly... after all, you are not some inanimate object without the ability to hear/understand/function in the world around you, but when we're in public quick notes and I want to make a blanket statement about people who just happen to be blind or visually impaired, I'm wanting a term that is user friendly for all.... yeah, I know that it is challenging.
As for kicking the cane, that's just rude.
here in India, the new term word is being used by the civilized people. and that is, "visually challenged". I like that though.
Raaj.
I disagree that words are just words. sure their just words to someone who that word has no connection too.
sometimes, a term, if said to the kind of person whom it would imply can be very inappropriate such as a black person the n word or japanese japs and so on. Any term has implications behind it and therefore they are not just "words".
Yes, but it is the implications behind it that make it offensive, not the word itself. The word fuck, is just an F sound, followed by the Uh sound, followed by a K sound. That's it, nothing else. You can't slit someone's throat with the word fuck, you can't have a baby with the word fuck, you can't get an STD, get charged with rape, or get a black eye when a girl punches you by the word fuck. Its a word. There is only one letter difference between a fuck and a duck, but duck and fuck have very different results.
If I were to continuously beat a small child in the head with a pipe while calling her a duck, you'd still call me nuts, even though I said nothing offensive, I called her a duck, that's cute, right? No, it isn't fucking cute, because I was trying to insult the child.
If I call you an ignorant piece of shit, you'd get offended. would you get offended if I called you a portion of human defication which has little to know intellectual capability whatsoever? Once you closed the dictionary, you probably would, why, because they're the same exact thing, just one sounds better.
Words, are just words. I get called a honky, a cracker, and a blink, all the time. I don't give a shit, because they are just words.
If words are just that, why use them to communicate at all? And you can not always tell that someone means nothing by what they say. by dismissing words as just sounds and syllables, we would then be rendering them to be just useless noise unless you could tell for certain what the person speaking them meant. To do that, you would probably need to be a mind reader. And if you know someone who can do that, I would be very interested in meeting them. lol
Kate, I agree with you. You could, I suppose, kind of compare it to an inside joke. It is funny when sharing it with your friends, but if someone outside that circle tries, it is awkward and offensive, too, at times. If people feel offended by a term, especially if it is someone you consider to be your friend, partner, whatever, meaning behind it or not, it is in the interest of your relationship to stop using such a term. Just my penny's worth here...
Agreed. If the person you're talking to knows what you mean by that word, go for it, but why should they be the first terms that pop into your head?
So you would stop using a term just because someone might possibly somewhere get offended by it? If you did, you'd never speak again. Where is your line, where do you finally say, "Ok, now your beginning to infringe on my life." If you notice, its called the right of free speech, not the right of not getting offended. If you get offended by something, it is your job to either avoid that person, or get used to it.
People get offended too easily these days. Now we have to always worry about what we're saying because someone might get offended by it. How often do you see a story in the paper or on the tv that someone was fired because they offended someone.
For instance, the politician who was shafted because he used the word mocaca. Are any of you offended by the word mocaca? I'm not, but someone was.
There's a difference between being offended by a term and just not liking it. I don't like the N word, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape if you use it. what I don't like is that out of all the possible terms there are to describe it, that one just happens to be the one that pops into your mind. Same with "blink". You can call us blind people, or hell, why not just people? But o no. it has to be blink. Not to mention many, not all, of the people throwing this term around are the same people that have no room to talk because they're just hiding behind their own insecurities.
@Kate aka Westcoastcdngrl I like your posts ...
I agree. There are words/terms I don't care for and prefer not to use, but I really cant' say my reaction to them is offence. I just prefere to make other word choices, because I do not believe words are just words, mindless sounds. We as humans have made a sort of collective decision that words said using certain tones of voice or in certain contexts are meant to communicate a dislike or a devaluing of another person. I do agree, whether you are hyper-sensitive or not, that having a thick skin is a good way to ensure your own sanity. But see, I don't think most people get offended as some kind of hobby or because they are weak people or because they feel some sort of entitlement. It's an emotion, so they feel what they feel. Just because you are particularly even-keeled or thick-skinned does not mean everyone is or should be. This is something I have to remember because I'm a pretty even-keeled guy and although I'm not walking around in armor my skin is fairly thick. But this does not mean I lack a certain empathy with others because I used to not have such a thick skin.
But, speaking of the power of words, even if it is perceived. Let's take the term blink. What would all of you say is the difference between calling somebody a blink or calling them a fucking blink. What is the significance of modifying the epithet "blink" with the word"fucking" and what would you guess is the intent of somebody adressing you that way. You think they want to ask you for a date? Hey, fucking blink, wanna go out? Nope, I somehow think they want to say "I feel I am superior to you and I am somehow compelled to tell you so because it amuses me greatly."
I am in agreement with OceanDream. If you do not mean to offend someone by what you say at all, and if words are just words, why is it that particular word you choose to use? People in glass houses should not throw stones, as the saying goes. If you are insecure about something and hide it behind throwing out derogatory terms, or being nasty in some other way, it might just come back to bite you in the butt some day. So if words are just words, why not just use neutral and respectable words, like people?
And if words do not mean anything, why not say you are going to blow up a country? After all, that has no meaning, right? Because it is just words? Say that in front of the wrong person or people, and see just how meaningless it is.
If you are friends with or in a relationship with someone who happens to belong to a group of people to which you assign unpleasant terms, that person may get offended or feel uncomfortable with you saying it. And if you can not respect them enough not to, you will probably lose that relationship. Sure, some people could not care less what you call them or anyone else for that matter. But like it or not, words do have meaning to a lot of people that stems beyond simple sounds and syllables.
I get called a fucking blink a lot, by my friends, and the meaning behind it is teasing, hense, its just a word. We've decided that a word means a certain thing, but that is completely arbitrary.
We have decided that the word dog means a little, furry, cute, four-legged animal that barks. But what if we decided it meant a stupid person who was constantly covered in other people's feces, suddenly, dog wouldn't be such a fun word anymore, its still dog though.
For example, the word bitch, refers to a female dog. The word shit is actually an acronym for store high in transit. However, if I told you to go eat shit bitch, you'd get offended, because I'm clearly not trying to use them in that context. But, is it the word that are hurtful, or the feeling I put behind them? Its the feeling, what's behind them.
I'm not saying you can't get offended, get offended if you want to, go out, get a soap box and stand on it screaming if you want to, but don't do it because of words, do it because of meanings. People use the N word to hurt, fight against the people who want to hurt others, not against the N word, its a word, it has no power that is not given it by you. It is up to you how much power a word has when you hear it, not the person who says it.
Tone of voice is also arbitrary, if I whisper the words, go fuck yourself, and called you the N word, you'd still be pretty pissed off, and rightly so, even though I whispered it. I was trying to hurt, but I was trying to do it in a library, and not get hurt. You gave me the power to do that by accepting it as a hurtful phrase. If you hadn't, it would have been meaningless.
Its a complicated thing to wrap your mind around, but once you do, you can do wonderful things with words. A poet is just someone who has found the way to unlock certain emotions with a word.
I understand what you are saying, but an estimate of... maybe... 90 percent of the general population will most likely not take it that way. How you say something is a good clue to what you mean by it, but the fact that you choose to say certain things at all says something to people about the kind of person you are or want to appear to be. Otherwise we would never in our lives be told by someone or other, choose your words carefully.
But that's just the thing, it doesn't matter how you take it. Lets just say you get offended at something I say, and you try to take action, the law protects me, not you. If what I say damages your reputation to a point where you are entitled to monitary reembersment, then it protects you, but not before then, and getting offended just doesn't do that. You do not have the rights to not get offended, that's my point.
actually yes it does its called slander.
I wanna be visually challenged. Guess I can't though, can't see a thing.
Okay Kate you can say Forereel and the blinks then I'll not get offended. Seriously I really don't get offended, but still I just think being labeled it silly. If I'm not in a group why do I have to be "the blind man!" when another person say a neighbor is "my neighbor" I mean just sayin. I wanna be "my neighbor" too!
I agree: I have a name, and would prefer it being used instead of being called 'that blind girl.' and I think I am a bit too old to be called a girl. I am a woman. Has anyone else had that happen? Even if the person referring to us does not know our names, Why can we not just be, that lady or gentleman next door? It is always, the 'blind girl next door,' or 'the blind guy next door.'
Because normally people try to use an adjective to describe you. If you live in a house with three or four people, and two of them are women, then your next door neighbor would say, "the blind girl next door". Or, if she's talking about your blindness, she'd go, "That blind girl next door", cuz your blind, and your a girl, and your next door. Its really not a hard chain of logic to follow.
Oddly enough, not all of the approximately seven billion people on this earth have met you, and therefore, do not know your name. I'm sure that most of the people that have met you, don't actually remember what your name is. So a vastly large majority of the world's population, has no idea what your name is, so how do you expect them to refer to you by your name? If you have family or friends that call you, that blind girl, I should hope you would get new friends who can remember what your name is.
Haven't you ever heard two sighted people talking, when they're looking for someone. They say, that guy over there, well which one, the guy with the brown hair, oh, that one, yes I see him. They aren't being prejudiced against people with brown hair, they're being specific.
Now, if your next door neighbor just said, the lady next door, then it would only narrow it down to two, not one. If there were more than one blind girl next door, they'd probably say, that blind girl with the brown hiaa. Isn't logic and specificity a wonderful thing?
Oh, and as for being a girl or a women, explain what the difference in in visual terms, and I'll explain why your a girl.
A girl is typically someone under the age of 18.
And I am starting to think you have just a bit of an attitude problem. And hence I said, if people do not know my name, that is fine. but if their are other ways by which to point me out. Like you said, the girl with the brown hair, etc etc. I think people might get a little odded out if I called them the sighted person across the street or whatever. Or i could throw in something by which I might recognize them. like, the old woman with the voice that sounds like nails on a blackboard. Now that would probably offend some people. And yet, I, or someone else in a similar situation, am not supposed to be a little indignant about being just the blind girl? Again, just trying to play on both sides of the story. Like some people have pointed out on here, it is okay for sighted people to refer to us as, 'fucking blinks,' or whatever you will. But it is not right if one of us refers to them as a sighty.
Going back a little to an earlier post, I've had people do stupid things when it comes to my cane. Kicking, jumping over, trying to grab it... and then they get ticked off when they get tripped or whacked. My explanation is, this is what I use to aid myself in getting around. If you see it, either please step out of the way or wait until I pass. Trying to trip me or take my cane isn't going to get you far. I will admit that when a few people have persisted, I gave them a smack with it. lol It put a stop to that nonsense in some cases. Or if they try to match my movements after I've excused myself and tried to walk around. I think it's immature and probably looks as dumb as it seems.
as for the whole words being just words bit... well some people say talk is cheap. Others say looks are deceiving. It is all a matter of how each person takes what you say in my opinion. But don't get mad if you call someone something and they come up with something for you. That's being a little hypocritical, no? If I couldn't be at least civil to someone, I couldn't very well expect them to be toward me. And the other way around.
And yeah I've been referred to and treated like a child, too. Though some people have told me it's because I look younger than I am. Maybe that's true, maybe not. But I don't care for it, either, or being singled out as just the blind girl.
I've never met a single person who has gotten offended by me calling them sighted people, because they're sighted.
If a person standing down the street doesn't know you, they won't know for sure that your over eighteen. Once you reach an age where you are clearly over eighteen, you'll probably be called a lady, or a woman. But as they probably don't know you, and you probably still look like a young lady, they refer to you as a girl because that is the common term for a younger member of the female sex.
How do you expect someone to refer to you as if they are actually talking about the fact that you are blind? Do you expect them to carry on a conversation about your lack of sight without actually ever using the word blind, because you don't like it?
As for the term blink, the only sighted people I've ever met, who have even had the slightest clue that blink was a term for blind people, were the ones I told about it. Its a blind term, used by blind people, for other blind people, so how can you be offended, if they're talking about themselves. A good proportion of the people who know that blink means blind, probably got told that by a blind person. Its not in the dictionary, its not in the slang dictionaries, its mostly only on this site.
Being offended by the term blind, or even blink for that matter, simply prepetuates the discomfort that sighted people feel whenever they speak to a blind person for the first time. They're usually so worried that they're going to upset us by saying the wrong thing. If they use the word see, or saw, or sight, or anything involving vision, we'll get offended, and its mostly our fault. If we had a bit thicker skin, and got over ourself, we'd be able to fit in with the sighted community a lot better.
I have hit a person or two with my cane, mostly either by accident, or if I felt threatened. And believe me, there were times I thought someone was going to try something. A couple of times they did and my natural instinct was to defend myself. I think that is a normal enough instinct. lol
As for the term blind offending me, that is not what I said. It is being called 'just the blind girl,' that I find irritating. I meant the whole phrase, not the word blind. itself. And I have actually been referred to as a blink, or a blink coupled with some other sounds and syllables, by sighted people more often than not. Not by blind people. But again as I said, I really did not know any other blind people until I discovered this site. I personally like to be left to my own affairs. But I will not stand for someone disrespecting me or belittling or dehumanizing me to my face.
Wonder where this topic will have gone by the time I come back in August...
Well yeah, if your a girl, and your blind, and there's only one of you, your the blind girl. When I was in high school, I was the blind guy. At college, I'm the blind guy, do I like it, not really, do I blame people for calling me that, not at all. I make sure they know who I am, and now very few people call me the blind guy. Instead of getting upset or offended, I changed the situation, because I looked at it from their perspective. Try it.
Yes, but were you, 'the blind guy?' or, 'Just the blind guy?' That just is what makes the difference here. that is the part that implies, 'not quite normal or entirely human,' or 'the freak in the bunch who tries to fit in, but really is not allowed.'
One way I, and a few people I talk to here go about that is ignoring those people completely. and then they get hostile. What a world we live in.
No kidding. And then there are those who confuse being blind with either being deaf or worse, stupid. In the case of the latter you have situations like I've described in other topics, where you're at a restaurant with a sighted friend or a group of them and the waiter/waitress asks what you want, but they ask your companions rather than ask you directly. And yes, occasionally they become hostile or at least much less friendly when you answer for yourself. And in the case of the former situation they either sign to you the way Seamaiden talks about (to my knowlege I've never had that happen to me), or they shout at you and speak! very! slowly! as! they! do! LOL.
Wow did this topic go all over the place! lol
I've seen it happen myself. Misaki aka Seamaiden and I go way back, and she gets that all the time. So when people ask me things they should be asking her, one thing I tend to do is say, 'i'm sorry, but it's not me you're asking about, so you should ask the proper person.' And then one thing they do is get right in her face.. And I mean to the point they are practically touching noses, and talk! all! loud! and sl'l'l'l'l'l'low'w'w'w'w'w'w'w! It's kind of creepy. Not to mention impolite, and she has said as much to them. But if I ever did that to someone, I'd be embarrassed out of my ass! I don't know. Maybe I think that way since I have a friend who just so happens to be blind. But it really does look stupid. Worse in public.
Bryan, I've heard about this scenario more than once, as in the hostile response when we very nicely and politely try to set people straight. I'm guessing that either they do not like their perceptions of the world to be challenged or shaken up, or perhaps they just think any blind person that would try to correct them is just being uppity and doesn't know their place. Hahahahahaha!
I agree. Lots of people seem to think that anyone with any sort of disability is beneath them. And if they get proved otherwise or corrected, they get nasty. I see it not only with people who are blind or visually impaired or whatever you prefer, but people in wheelchairs, people with autism, people with a hearing or speech problem... you name it!
I will say the following on labels though:
I don't particularly like being known as 'the blind guy' especially after people have known me, or known of me, for a bit.
But, then again, we get labeled all sorts of things based on perception. Due to my profession being software, some people think of me as the geek, all accoutrements included.
Then when people see us volunteer Coast Guard people in uniform, they think things of us, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. On that front, I've had people say things about environmental damage that 'we people' cause, etc., when the Coast Guard is actually responsible for waterways environmental controls, marine safety, etc. and rehomed more sea turtles / cleaned up more birdsz than any activist yelling group. So there you go: I just labeled a ton of people there.
Basically just do your best and leave it at that: people are gonna label, make stuff up, rub all over themselves, and make themselves feel good, at your expense and otherwise. Just try to dodge incomings. And, in the case of us blind people in relationships with sighted people, I still say we gotta help *them* dodge incomings at times.
No wonder sighted people are so uncomfortable around us. So many of the people in this blind community that every blind person knows about but isn't a part of is so easy to offend. Just one wrong word will do it. Walk that tightrope and don't say anything that will offend...
In life, there's rarely a perfect balance, so sure, things will irritate you, but people can't read minds. Strangers don't know what will and won't offend.
No but I think some things are obvious. I'd say someone'd have to be on the dense side if they think calling someone a 'fucking blink,' might not offend.
If a group of people have decided amungst themselves that a term will be used to tease each other, that's totally fine, but anyone outside that group is not in on your little circle of friends, and therefore probably has no idea of your meaning for the term. Now, if I hear the term and I sense from your tone of voice the term as being a joke, I'm not bothered at all. There's the difference. But if I hear the term and sense from your tone that you are not joking, I will not be offended, rather I will lose respect for you, since at this point my point from earlier will apply: Out of all the terms you could use, somehow you feel this particular term is best suited.
Okay so the next time I notice my neighbor coming out of her house I'll mumble loud enough so she hears me "oh the fat lady with the blond hairs just walked by. hahahahaha. That under arm smelly man you know. Ah yes the fat ass in 307? I'm not offended, but if the question is ask "what do you like to be called, well if you know my name, that. If I'm your neighbor that.
But even if you don't know someone's name, that shouldn't mean "blink" per say. I mean, if you noticed a random person walking down the street who wasn't blind, what would your first thought be if you wanted to get their attention. Hey sighty!". Hmm. I'm thinking more along the lines of Ma'am or sir. I'm not saying you have to use the most polite terms, but if your first thought for a sighted person is not to call them "sighty", why should your first inclination for a blind person be "blink" or "blindy"? O, and if your first inclination is to call a sighted person "sighty", most people are probably going to think you're a little strange. As Leo pointed out a little earlier, most sighted people have never heard those terms before, except those who have heard them from another blind person. I mean, if you're not worried about that, go right ahead, but I know I'd sure think you were strange if I was that person.
It can seem a bit dehumanizing to be thought of as "that blind person" but honestly, if you've got cane in hand or harness and dog, this is what people are going to notice first. I don't think people mean anything more by it though than as a way to distinguish you from all the other generic faceless people they see. You can hope that if you interact with people enough and to a certain point that they'll want to know your name and associate that name with you, even if the interaction is kept to smalltalk and the like.
For me, if I'm in a crowded store and someone tries to get my attention by screaming, "Sir! Sir! Sir?" over and over again, I might begin to wonder if they're talking to me, but I won't be certain. Would Y'all?
Yes, but there are other ways to get your attention. Tapping your grocery cart if you have one, and if there's just no other way, "person with the cane", or "person with the guide dog" is okay. I can understand if the person doesn't know your name and it's clear there's no other way to get your attention. Again, terms like "blindy" or "blink" are probably not something you're going to run into at a store or other public place.
I suppose it'd be better than Hey! You! But I think what offends me most is the view that some sighted people have that blind people shouldn't have a sense of humor, least of all about their blindness. Oh it's perfectly ok for those same sighted folks to have a sense of humor about it but god forbid the blind guy should exhibit humor about his blindness. Then it's not humor but low self-esteem. I've seen quite a few would-be romantic relationships die on the operating table before they ever really got started, simply because I knew right away she was going to take issue with me every time I made a joke about blindness. My most recent x used to get pissed at me for doing it. Of course had I known she was going to be that way I'd have thought twice about being wit her butshe didn't show that side of herself right away. I don't think she resented the fact that I was blind so much as that I didn't want to live the way she thought a blind person ought to live. And then it was ok for her to use my blindness as a source of humor, though definitely not in the way a blind person would. As I said, she used to move things right as I reached for them and she thought that was funny.
I have no tolerance for that sort of thing whatsoever. I'll explain the first time that that sort of thing isn't funny. I mean, would you be able to do that to a person if they could see? if the answer is no, it's not funny. If the person does it again, I'll happily kick them to the curb. I've known people who honestly didn't see it that way, and as soon as I helped them see it in a different light, they were devestated and never did it again. I can abide that, but I can't abide people doing that multiple times after it's been made clear it's not a funny joke. "There was this blind guy who walked into a bar" types of jokes are different, but if the joke is made about a person specifically, and uses a person's traits as the subject of the joke, it's far from humorous.
Wow... Bryan, your ex sounds like an immature, heartless little bitch! That's no better than, for example, a man thinking a woman should stay home all the time to raise his family and meet his needs! If someone expects you to live a certain way because you're blind, deaf, anything, and they try to enforce that, i think it's that person who is totally insecure with the way he or she is living.
And as far as the whole getting attention thing goes, as a sighted person myself, I can say that I don't always realize people are talking to me, either. So I'd highly doubt that's specific to people who are blind or have little vision. And if they're screaming? Well, personally, I'm not looking to see what's going on because I'll probably laugh my ass off at whoever's making the fool of him or herself.
What? I'm confused now. Aren't women supposed to be barefoot, pregnant and stay at home? Oh, what on earth is this world coming to?
Allow me to threadjack even further.
Thank you, specific examples, I like specific examples. That is the point I'm trying to make, you should listen to the meaning behind, not the words themselves, but think logically abuot it. Why are they meaning what they do.
I've previously dated many blind people, am now dating a sighted girl, however she's a wheelchair user. We ask a lot of very odd questions to each other, and, at the end of the day have a laugh. I've learnt my self sight isn't potentially as much of a a barrier as people make it - if you connect on another level, if the personality and chemestry are there then you just work out the resst as you go on :)
Jack
I have been dating with both blind and sighted guys. I say it is not easy to trust a sighed guy. Even sometimes the sighted guys tend to betray the blind girls. There are advantages and disadvantages with both blind and sighted guys. Life is just like a dream.
I can agree with some of the comments previously mentioned here. I have only been on one date so far. Not because I am blind, but because I am looking, literally, for certain aspects in the men I go out with. These aspects are simular values and life expectancies, such as bringing up a family after marage, as mine. I do not care if this person can see, hear, does or does not have a disability, only how he feels about me on the inside.
I'm currently dating a sighted girl and so far it's been great. Unlike a lot of the sighted women I've known, this girl actually pays attention to me when I tell her things and, if I tell her I don't like something she does, actally makes an effort not to do whatever it is in the future. Basicall she treats me the same way she does other people.
0Tootle, You won't even date if a person doesn't seem to have your likes or dislikes right off? You are only dating to marry, or nothing at all, right?
Seems like thats going to make it difficult to find your husband, or the right one. My reason for saying that is many people agree so they can take you out with you at the start, but after a while things change. The ones that are truthful will probably make better mates, because they, if decide will adapt, and still be honest.
Plus I always think of dating as enjoyment, not searching for a mate.
Off topic, but am interested.
i was dating a sighted person for a while, but i don't think it's going to work out. Not because I'm blind but because we want completely different things. and I don't think either of us wants to compromise at this point in our lives.
and I want a serious relationship with someone someday, but Im not really interested in marriage or children.
I honestly don't see what's the matter with dating someone's that is sited, I actually prefer it, not because I want to use the vision, it's just because well. Most blind people I dislike, so, I think sighted people are just more so......, less dramatic. but maybe, perhaps if I find one that suits me.
Hmm to the last poster I say the following: I would consider it insulting, if I were sighted, to find out the person I was dating had such a narrow view. Sighted people may go blind, be they veterans or as they age.
And all sighted people as they age need some more assistance with things visual, be it larger fonts,a pair of reading glasses, a bigger screen. To claim you like people because of their sight or lack thereof is just as shallow as a man who would claim he will only be with a woman who measures 36 x 24 x 36.
Ironically? I and a couple other blind people I know around my own age find ourselves uniquely equipped to assist and look out for these types of things when sighted people start to lose a little vision here and there. Whether it's because we're blind, or because we're software engineers, or a combination of the several I don't know but it is nonetheless true. By excluding all the blind, you exclude an awful lot of people, including the blinded Iraqi war veterans.
What makes it passably excusable I guess, is that you are still an idealistic young spazz: I've got nieces your age, and a daughter a few years younger, so I understand. Do what you will, but don't be surprised when you yourself get judged the same way by someone else. It seems to be the case that we get measured ourselves with the same measuring stick we use on other people.
Blind people are less dramatic? No way. You went to high school, right? Even if it was a school for the blind, I assume you haven't been completely sheltered from sighted people, especially sighted teenagers. I'm not saying sighted people are more dramatic, just pointing out the ridiculousness of that statement which, I might add, you didn't bother to defend with any kind of logic that might at least make me think about how you came to have such a backwards viewpoint.
I have no problem with Sighted people dating Blind people, that's just a person's choice.
My girlfriend is sighted and works with people who are Blind, so she understands how to handle me and stuff like that.
I have no issue with it, if a Blind person wants to date a Sighted person, that's their Choice, if a Lesbian wants to date a Gayman, that's her choice, if a Cat wants to mate with a Dog, well that's another topic.
:)
I have never met a blind woman...
So fix that. The Zone might help.
Nah, don;don't do it, most Zone girls are like Prostitutes. They talk to some guy, pretend to be their Zone Boyfriends then they somehow gets their periods and move on to the next zone guy.
As if being blind and being on this very website makes all the difference. All who are not blind and who do not frequent the Zone are beings of the purest angelic godly love and light, and nowhere, not in real life, not even on-line, would they do such things. Blind people, and Zoners in particular, are Satan's own bastard children, products of unspeakable sin which we won't talk about. Take all the worst traits of humanity and these blind people, these Zoners, have them all, without exception, in infinite abundance. Even the worst serial killer psycho weirdo rotting in prison right now is as innocent as a baby in comparison to these sons and daughters of slugs. Cursed to the zillionth generation they are, and again I say they are cursed! Well, everyone but me, of course. LOL!
The only reason I wouldn't date someone on the Zone is because I've done enough long distance relationships to know they don't work for me. There have been a few girls I've met here that, had we lived in the same city or even just the same state I might have been willing to try. But one of the ladies I might have been interested in was way over on the Emerald Isle. LOL.
Lol Godzilla aptly describing the haters.
to posts 206 and 207, lol!
In all seriousness, being blind or sighted does not automatically decide your character. OK, so you went on the Zone and one or more blind chicks decided to be fickle or otherwise play head games. Being blind did not make her do it, she decided to do it on her own. If you meet sighted people on-line or in real life you have probably the same chance of either being accepted or rejected or otherwise played with. You know what? I'm getting incredibly sick and tired of this attitude some of us have about our own people where they will heap all the worst traits of humanity on the blind and only the blind just because they see it a lot or in high concentration from a small group of people. Don't be fooled. Just because you don't see sighted people being immature or dramatic does not mean it doesn't happen. Look, I'm not perfect. I've got my faults and I do screw up every so often. But I do not hate myself and my life as a blind person and I do not hate other blind people, nor do I use them to deflect any hatred I would have towards myself that I don't want to admit. In fact, in all truth, there are very few people that I would say that i honestly hate. There's lots that I dislike and there's lots more I'm indifferent to, but I don't waste my time and energy hating on anyone.
What 211 said... in spades!
Sighteds are just as likely to play head games as blind people... trust me on this... I'm a sighted and have been the victim of sighted head games... head games are an equal opportunity offender and it doesn't matter if one is sighted or deaf or blind or hearing... if someone is going to be a player, their physical abilities or disabilities are definitely NOT a determining factor.
I am married to a sighted man and I am very happy with my life. I think people should remember that just because your partner is sighted doesn't mean your life is easy. My husband is an Iraqi war vet with severe PTSD.
Cheers to the last three posts.
My wife is one of those tall chicks, where the back problems kicks in and she also has issues with the joints now being in the mid 40s. Me? I'm blind as a damned bat but can physically do near anything: climb into and out of anywhere and carry whatever, and furthermore I'm game and all in to do it. Being a short guy, I don't have the back issues, and being that I work out a lot, I've got the stamina and things to do whatever she's needing done.
Here's another thing that affects the middle-aged sighted people: all these tiny screens and devices, print that doesn't have very good contrast. All sorts of things: they can see well enough to drive and do things the way they've always done it. But unlike us, they have no aids like a reader or anything. Except, when they get them, a pair of reading glasses. And there's a lot of times when they don't realize they'll need it until they've already got themselves frustrated. Unlike us, it's pretty hidden: nobody talks about that struggle. But it's definitely there. And the more electronic devices with smaller screens that come out, the more they potentially get left behind. In it's own way, it's way worse than us, and I for one, have got her back on that stuff. But if someone doesn't know enough technically to go look for font and background settings on a device or a phone she's gotta use, that's a lot harder.
Like Godzilla, I'm sick of the trip people get themselves into about us also. Someone recently on Audioboo went off on some crusade about some petition regarding an iOS game. Her claim, like a crusader night in full form, was that somehow whoever did that is affecting us all, that we can all affects us in this way. Well I'll be crude and direct: I have no illusions about being anything other than another piss-ant member of the masses, and you gotta have one enormous ego to imagine that one small action on the internet somewhere is going to decapitulate the whole community somehow. Ironically, had it not been for the Crusader, I'd have never even heard about that petition.
This is what happens all the time, it seems. If you want to go hate on yourself, go right ahead: knock yourself out. Just don't drag the rest of us into it. All we're doing out here is scratching out a living.
Perhaps a couple of crusader self-loather types could hook up for some crazy lovin' and work off the energy, leaving the rest of us well enough alone.
You can end up with a few bad apples. But if it continues time after time, you've got to look at your motives and priorities. If you aren't happy, then try something different. People have no room to complain if they get wrapped up continuously with someone because they will fuck them the first night, and wonder why it didn't work out. And, if you pay attention to the other person well enough, you can tell if there is something faulty about them that will not work with you. There's no excuse to put yourself in the same discouraging situation over and over again.